65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

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CorporateDisguise
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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by CorporateDisguise » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:21 am

andy_tchp wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:32 pm
The OP indicates he's playing it at 2 or 3 on the volume control...that's not 'cooking' for a DR, just beautiful cleans.

What's an attenuator going to do in this scenario that the volume knob doesn't?
Just because an amp isn't breaking up doesn't mean its not compressing. Turning down the volume of your guitar will certainly effect the compression level and feel of the amp, where an attenuator would just knock it back a few db.

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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by Gavanti » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:57 am

CorporateDisguise wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:21 am
andy_tchp wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:32 pm
The OP indicates he's playing it at 2 or 3 on the volume control...that's not 'cooking' for a DR, just beautiful cleans.

What's an attenuator going to do in this scenario that the volume knob doesn't?
Just because an amp isn't breaking up doesn't mean its not compressing. Turning down the volume of your guitar will certainly effect the compression level and feel of the amp, where an attenuator would just knock it back a few db.
3-4 on the normal channel of my 73 DR plus a Weber attenuator is how I run my amp at home. It’s a fatter, warmer clean than just turning the amp volume knob down, and is reasonable volume for a living room. It’s definitely worth a try, and a used attenuator is easy to turn around if you don’t like it.
Last edited by Gavanti on Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by andy_tchp » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:07 am

CorporateDisguise wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:21 am
andy_tchp wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:32 pm
The OP indicates he's playing it at 2 or 3 on the volume control...that's not 'cooking' for a DR, just beautiful cleans.

What's an attenuator going to do in this scenario that the volume knob doesn't?
Just because an amp isn't breaking up doesn't mean its not compressing. Turning down the volume of your guitar will certainly effect the compression level and feel of the amp
I meant the volume control on the amp (ie the built in 'attenuator') obviously?
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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by PJazzmaster » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:12 am

Don't forget to consider the Musicmaster Bass Amp, as something between Champ and Princeton and DR.
You'll get a 12" speaker with great clean sounds. They are still affordable, easy to carry and you can ideally resell without losing any money, if you don't like ;)

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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by CorporateDisguise » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:37 am

andy_tchp wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:07 am
CorporateDisguise wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:21 am
andy_tchp wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:32 pm
The OP indicates he's playing it at 2 or 3 on the volume control...that's not 'cooking' for a DR, just beautiful cleans.

What's an attenuator going to do in this scenario that the volume knob doesn't?
Just because an amp isn't breaking up doesn't mean its not compressing. Turning down the volume of your guitar will certainly effect the compression level and feel of the amp
I meant the volume control on the amp (ie the built in 'attenuator') obviously?
The compression and feel argument still stands. Decreasing the volume on the amp will cause the compression level to change, changing the feel of the amp. At low volume levels the amp will feel more strident, have more headroom and your pick attack will affect volume level much more significantly. A DR on three is pretty near its maximum decibel level, and turning up further will just increase compression and eventually overdrive levels. At this point your pick attack affects the volume much less. The harder you strike the strings the more the amp will compress the signal.

These are the main changes in feel that people a talking about when having to play at low volumes. Some people may not care about it as much. In fact some people like an amp that still has alot of headroom. And both certainly have their merits.

So if you want to adjust volume with out affecting feel, an attenuator is a good solution. They are really only good if your shaving a few DB off though. If you are trying to turn a scream into a whisper it will feel very unnatural.

Also, I didn't mean to offend you, and if I have, I appologize. The subtlies of language are often lost when communicating through text, and I did not mean to be condescending in anyway.

Edited for grammatical mistakes because typing on a phone is hard.

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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by øøøøøøø » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:23 am

Not a big fan of the "'68 Custom" DR or PR. I would not do the trade mentioned.

Broadly, the Princeton is a bit of a different amp from the Deluxe.

Neither is "better," they're just different.

The Princeton has the better tremolo to me, for sure. The Princeton also has a bit of a (subjectively) different overdrive character when turned way up due to the cathodyne PI and cathode biased output tubes. The DR is "stiffer," more like a big amp. The PR is "squishier," more like a small amp.

The 12" vs 10" speaker is a huge difference, too. If you primarily play alone, you might like the fullness of the 12". I like the quickness and bark of the 10" in ensemble settings, and the fact that it doesn't put out SO MUCH sound. I can really push against it, which I like (some people prefer an amp with more headroom that's "more responsive." I like a squishy amp that pushes back against me when I push hard into the front end).

Both are good amps.

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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by marqueemoon » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:37 am

I agree that a small amp turned up and a bigger amp turned down are different things.

If you plan to play live don’t ditch the Deluxe. I’d get an attenuator or possibly an inexpensive lower watt amp with a different flavor like a Vox AC4.

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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by Telliot » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:38 am

After owning a DRRI and then a ‘74 DR for quite awhile, I ended up selling both and bought a ‘66 Princeton Reverb. It’s exactly what I need from an amp, and as Brad mentioned, the tremolo is better to my ears. I also prefer the bark of a 10” speaker. It just feels more ‘immediate’ to me, especially in a band context.
The cool thing about fretless is you can hit a note...and then renegotiate.

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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:33 am

Someone above posed a good question- this Deluxe Reverb, it sounds like a great amp, and my first thought would be to tell you just to keep it and play at lower volumes.

But, is there a scenario where you will ever need the extra volume that this amp delivers? Or will it always be overkill for you?

Because if you think you might need all that a DRRI does at some point, then just keep it and work around the issue with either an attenuator or a second amp or your volume knob- the "built in attenuator", some calls it.

And if you think that you'll never need all the power of this amp, that it's always going to be too much, then I guess you have your answer.
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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by Telliot » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:33 am

To Larry’s point, I can’t recommend the Swart Night Light enough.
The cool thing about fretless is you can hit a note...and then renegotiate.

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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by andy_tchp » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:34 pm

CorporateDisguise wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:37 am
Also, I didn't mean to offend you, and if I have, I appologize. The subtlies of language are often lost when communicating through text, and I did not mean to be condescending in anyway.

Edited for grammatical mistakes because typing on a phone is hard.
On the subtleties of text, my 'what's an attenuator going to do' question was, rather than a statement of 'I don't know anything about this at all, please talk to me about the fundamentals of valve amps', a (marginally) more polite way of saying 'I don't think this addresses or provides a solution to the OP's specific problem'.

I can only surmise that we've had fairly different experiences when using a DR, as I've never played through one out of headroom or feeling significant compression at '3' on the dial (I tend towards low output single coils, always, so there's one potential variable), even when digging in. They're a loud, stiff amp. I mean, not Twin Reverb levels of stiff, but certainly a different beast to the wonderful squashed, chewy mess of a Princeton Reverb turned up past 6-7 (which sadly is also way too loud for household situations :D )

The (non-switchable in the case of the DR) 47pF 'bright' cap across the volume pot (assuming use of the 'Vibrato' input) paired with the feeling of the amp and speaker 'coming to life' from it's fairly bland/anemic sounding start as the volume rolls up well over conversational levels is an excellent demonstration of Fletchen Munson, as Mike mentioned early on in the thread.

I still don't really see an attenuator being the perfect 'fix' for the OP, although I can see it counteracting the bright cap somewhat by allowing the volume pot to be turned up higher without annoying his wife. And Gavanti indicated this exact setup worked for him upthread, so I it's certainly worth a try, and they are surprisingly cheap devices these days. He could also try plugging into the 'Normal' channel (which omits the bright cap, and tends to provide a fuller sound) and see if the results are more pleasing at lower volumes, noting the Weber 12F150 is an efficient, 'big' sounding speaker so will get to the point of a 'too loud' perceived volume faster than a less efficient driver.

The proof of the pudding will be in the eating. :)


Also, I fully admit bias: I don't like attenuators. The only time I've used one and thought the result sounded 'as good' was with a 100W Marshall JMP that belonged to a friend of mine, which was just an unbearably loud, pants shaking (even with attenuation), absurd, stupid, glorious sounding amp. Heated arguments followed when said friend brought it to use at a gig in a ~200 capacity venue, sans-attenuator, where I was the 'lucky' guy running the mixing desk... :squint:
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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by doctorock78 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:12 pm

I'm surprised noone has mentioned the OPs speaker!! 12F150!! Those things are WAYYYY too loud in my experience. Swap that speaker for a Weber Signature Ceramic and you will cut a bunch of decibels right off the top lickety split. Then use an attenuator if you must, but use it sparingly to avoid tone loss.... And of course what everyone says about the Princeton Reverb... another great route...

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Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Post by secretroutines » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:42 pm

I've been going back and forth on this one, but I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on Milkman's The Amp. It's got speaker out, XLR out (with a decent cab sim), and a headphone jack. The solid state power section would give you some flexibility on volume. Overall, reviews seem overwhelmingly positive.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O58148dqiww

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