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65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:45 pm
by NateD81
Hi guys -

I’ve got a DRRI with a Weber 12F150, Genalex Gold Lion 6V6s and a variety of preamp tubes. It sounds great with the volume at about 3 and up, but at that point it’s getting a little loud for what my wife likes... it’s ok at 2 but I feel like it doesn’t have that sweet fender sound that low.

Would I be better off with a Princeton Reverb? I know they are more than capable of getting loud. Is there a different amp that I won’t be disappointed in tone-wise compared to a DRRI than can sound great at lower volumes?

I’ve had an Super Champ X2 but that’s too much of a downgrade IMO: I just play at home in my garage. I definitely want to stay in the tube-world, not interested in modeling. I mainly play mellow music, pretty much clean only - I rarely play anything requiring overdrive so that’s not a huge concern for me.

Any suggestions? Thanks all!

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:20 pm
by andy_tchp
Princeton Reverb is nearly always the answer. If I could only have 1 amp that'd be the one.

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:44 pm
by NateD81
I’ve got a local guy offering his CPR for my DRRI, but given all the ‘upgrades’ on my FSR Wine red DR, I feel like that’s not an equal swap. What do you suppose would be equal value if he threw cash In with the deal if I were to trade?

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:57 pm
by andy_tchp
CPR?

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:00 pm
by NateD81
andy_tchp wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:57 pm
CPR?
The '68 "custom" Princeton Reverb Reissue . The silverface one haha

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:09 pm
by andy_tchp
Oh, right. Definitely not an equal swap.

BTW, they sound quite different to their blackface reissue counterparts. I didn't particularly like either of the '68 Custom' Silverface amps I tried out extensively (Deluxe Reverb and Princeton Reverb) with a view to buying one of them, so I'd be taking a hard pass at that trade deal regardless. YMMV and all that.

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:31 pm
by Tehz_
andy_tchp wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:20 pm
Princeton Reverb is nearly always the answer. If I could only have 1 amp that'd be the one.
Yes, this. Recently got my first Princeton (‘68 Custom reissue) and really, I don’t think I’ll ever need another amp again. The next amp I buy, if I find it necessary, will probably be another Princeton!

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:02 pm
by mbene085
What's your budget? Do you need a straight swap or are you able to invest a bit more into the setup? And how happy are you with your current tone?

Because a reasonably priced attenuator like a swart nite lite would let you get that amp cooking a bit more at a bit lower volume.

The question with tube amps is, "how much of this is because the tubes are running hotter, and how much is because of Fletcher-Munson?"

If you're not familiar, the Fletcher-Munson curve describes the behaviour of human hearing at different volume levels. Essentially, the louder a sound is overall, the more bass we perceive relative to other frequencies. Or, the quieter the sound, the more midrange we perceive relative to other frequencies.

Part of the reason tube amps sound better louder (warmer, fuller) is because that's how hearing works. My digital Kemper/Fractal rig sounds better at jamming level than it does at conversation level, and it's not because any tubes are cooking.

You need quite a hyped bass response for a clean tone to sound full at "night practice" levels. If you can try out an attenuator with your current amp, you may or may not find that your tone you love sounds thinner or more midrangey if you take it down to conversation level even when the tubes are running as hot as they do at the level you most enjoy.

Just something to think about.

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:47 am
by Larsongs
NateD81 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:44 pm
I’ve got a local guy offering his CPR for my DRRI, but given all the ‘upgrades’ on my FSR Wine red DR, I feel like that’s not an equal swap. What do you suppose would be equal value if he threw cash In with the deal if I were to trade?
Both are Used so about $300-$400 plus the CPR. Start high, you can always come down.......

L

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:21 am
by somanytoys
mbene085 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:02 pm
What's your budget? Do you need a straight swap or are you able to invest a bit more into the setup? And how happy are you with your current tone?

Because a reasonably priced attenuator like a swart nite lite would let you get that amp cooking a bit more at a bit lower volume.

The question with tube amps is, "how much of this is because the tubes are running hotter, and how much is because of Fletcher-Munson?"

If you're not familiar, the Fletcher-Munson curve describes the behaviour of human hearing at different volume levels. Essentially, the louder a sound is overall, the more bass we perceive relative to other frequencies. Or, the quieter the sound, the more midrange we perceive relative to other frequencies.

Part of the reason tube amps sound better louder (warmer, fuller) is because that's how hearing works. My digital Kemper/Fractal rig sounds better at jamming level than it does at conversation level, and it's not because any tubes are cooking.

You need quite a hyped bass response for a clean tone to sound full at "night practice" levels. If you can try out an attenuator with your current amp, you may or may not find that your tone you love sounds thinner or more midrangey if you take it down to conversation level even when the tubes are running as hot as they do at the level you most enjoy.

Just something to think about.
This. Totally agree 100%,

I would spend the money to buy an attenuator to reduce the sound of an amp that you already love, especially since it's a really nice amp and has all of the special options. You can always buy another, smaller amp later on, if you still want to, but in the meantime you can reign in the volume of this one with a good attenuator, and keep the sounds you like at lower volumes. You may find you don't want/need a smaller amp.

Even if, like M said above, you do find the sound a little thinner, middier, or whatever, it's only at the lower volumes - when you get the chances to turn it up, your beautiful, familiar sound is right there waiting for you.

edit: and keep in mind, the small amp is ONLY going to be good for small things, it can't go the other way and give you the bigger sound. I feel like the attenuator gives you the best of both worlds. There probably is going to be a bit of a difference in sound to adjust to, but I find that an attenuator is better than lower volumes. Small amps are cool, I have 5 small wattage tube amps, but they only get you so far before you have to mic them to get any bigger sound.

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:32 pm
by andy_tchp
The OP indicates he's playing it at 2 or 3 on the volume control...that's not 'cooking' for a DR, just beautiful cleans.

What's an attenuator going to do in this scenario that the volume knob doesn't?

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:00 pm
by Unicorn Warrior
andy_tchp wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:32 pm
The OP indicates he's playing it at 2 or 3 on the volume control...that's not 'cooking' for a DR, just beautiful cleans.

What's an attenuator going to do in this scenario that the volume knob doesn't?
I agree here. Also, the Princeton's are smaller and easier to pack

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:27 pm
by Larry Mal
andy_tchp wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:32 pm
The OP indicates he's playing it at 2 or 3 on the volume control...that's not 'cooking' for a DR, just beautiful cleans.

What's an attenuator going to do in this scenario that the volume knob doesn't?

Well, it would allow him to turn the volume knob of the amp up to 8 or 9, and still output the same decibel level that what he's getting now at 2 or 3.

I have a built in attenuator on my Princeton Reverb, if I set the volume knob on the Reverb up to 10 and the attenuator to 1, the lowest setting, you can hear the amp all distorted naturally but it's very quiet, you'll never disturb the neighbors.

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:45 pm
by andy_tchp
Yes, I'm familiar with attenuators.
NateD81 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:45 pm
I mainly play mellow music, pretty much clean only - I rarely play anything requiring overdrive so that’s not a huge concern for me.

Re: 65 deluxe Reverb vs. Something quieter or less powerful?

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:50 pm
by Larry Mal
Got you- I was actually going to revisit this and amend what I wrote there, later it occurred to me that you must know about attenuators and that I must have missed something in the discussion. Mea culpa.