Is there a big difference...

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Is there a big difference...

Post by jakeisjake » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:47 pm

sound wise...between a 10'' speaker and a 12'' speaker?
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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by øøøøøøø » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:51 pm

“Big difference” is subjective.

But yeah, I feel like there is

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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by jakeisjake » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:46 pm

thanks :)
If I was a byrd, I'd be mighty sore every time they shut the door and I don't think I'd sing...

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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by sookwinder » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:52 pm

There are even big difference between 10" and 12" speakers from the same manufacturer in as much as one size/design may be great the other crap. Case in point 60s OXFORD speakers used in many Fender amps. 12" Oxfords are regarded as being less than acceptable, while 10" Oxfords are one of the holy grails (especially in a PR).

FWIW ... I prefer 10" speakers.
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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by øøøøøøø » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:54 am

Just to elaborate a bit further...

I have a rare '71 Marshall 1961 Bluesbreaker. Unlike the more common model 1962, the model 1961 has 4x10 Celestions (instead of 2x12).

It's also effectively literally a JMP-50, the same exact amp that's usually paired with a 4x12.

The 4x10 version sounds nothing like either the 4x12 or the 2x12. All are very, very cool. But it's a totally different thing.

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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by Jaguar018 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:26 am

I feel like different speaker sizes and manufacturers are like the Earth's oceans. We spend countless hours discussing guitars, wood, strings, and pickups on dry land, but not nearly as many of us get into all of the different things that speakers and cabinets can do. It's like this vast world that surrounds us that most of us don't really pay much attention to.

Generally I prefer 10" speakers. Why? Well, mostly because I like the number 10 more than I like the number 12. Most of my favorite amps have had 10" speakers in them. I bought two open backed cabs and had one with a 12" speaker and one with two 10" speakers. I tended to prefer the 2X10" one-- but at one point I realized I had been unknowingly using the 12" one for months in band practice and I didn't know the difference. :-[

Clearly for people that spend a lot more time playing and recording like øøøøøøø , the sonic characteristics become more obvious and useful. I'd love to have a few weeks or months to swap out speakers and cabs and really find some great tones-- but then again it depends on the situation. The same set up might sound perfect one day, but for a different gig it could fall flat.

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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by øøøøøøø » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:14 am

There's this two-way communication, as well.

The music informs which equipment we pick. But the equipment we pick also informs what the music sounds like.

And over time, things crystallize into traditions, and even before they crystallize into traditions, they crystallize into ways-of-working.

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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by Arthon » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:42 am

Very nice point of view
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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by redchapterjubilee » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:39 am

I don't know how much of a difference there is. I've never owned the same speaker in both sizes at the same time to compare. But I do know that a speaker change can drastically change the character of an amplifier. My Copperhead-loaded 4x10 eats volume and softens the attack on amps, works fantastic with the 100w amps but can swallow sub-50w amps (it also records the best of all my cabinets); my Wizard/C-Rex 2x12 will make any sub-50w amp project and sound big; the Hempdog 1x12 is super neutral; my 10A125 loaded 2x10 is bright, projects well live, and is "louder" than the 4x10. I don't think the differences have to do strictly with 10 vs. 12 but design and efficiency. I could be completely wrong though.
Last edited by redchapterjubilee on Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by Larsongs » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:47 am

jakeisjake wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:47 pm
sound wise...between a 10'' speaker and a 12'' speaker?
Not as much as good sounding10" & 12" Speakers compared to poor sounding 10" & 12" Speakers.... The Sound quality of the individual Speaker matters the most IMO....

L

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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by sessylU » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:03 am

øøøøøøø wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:14 am
There's this two-way communication, as well.

The music informs which equipment we pick. But the equipment we pick also informs what the music sounds like.

And over time, things crystallize into traditions, and even before they crystallize into traditions, they crystallize into ways-of-working.

4x12 Celestions in a closed-back cabinet sounds really good for distorted heavy rock rhythm. Is this because there's something inherent about that setup that serves that function? Or is it that the people who were really good at that type of playing used that setup, and the style sort of "grew around" that sound?

It's impossible to ascribe percentages of which-is-which, but in many/most cases it's probably some of both. And they feed back into each other, and reinforce one another.

A P bass with Flatwounds is the choice if you want to sound like old Motown records, for instance. But if James Jamerson had access to and had played a Music Man 5 string with roundwounds instead, perhaps THAT would be the sound... but if that's what he had played, other elements of those records would be different, too. Because everything impacts everything else. If Jamerson had employed a radically different sound, his function in the ensemble would've changed, which would've likewise altered everything the other musicians played (and the sounds THEY chose), and the productions, etc.

Selecting the right gear is really about understanding the culture in which you're operating... having a familiarity with the colors that are available, what those colors signify, and how you can use that to musical advantage in a given situation.

OR you could just have one thing that you like, and work hard to mold that to make it work in a variety of situations, curating the music you play to that which best fits your style.
I really enjoy this aspect of gear. I'm generally not someone who gets precious about traditions or doing things in the accepted way, but I play through Matamp stack because of that process you talk about.

I live in a one bedroom flat in the middle of a city. This amp is not suitable for home use. I don't gig. If I did gig, this amp would not be suitable for the venues I would be playing. It's much, much too loud for even the largest of local venues and besides, it is impractical to move. It is very much an anachronism. But it's what guitar music is supposed to sound like.
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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by somanytoys » Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:03 pm

sessylU wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:03 am
øøøøøøø wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:14 am
There's this two-way communication, as well.

The music informs which equipment we pick. But the equipment we pick also informs what the music sounds like.

And over time, things crystallize into traditions, and even before they crystallize into traditions, they crystallize into ways-of-working.

4x12 Celestions in a closed-back cabinet sounds really good for distorted heavy rock rhythm. Is this because there's something inherent about that setup that serves that function? Or is it that the people who were really good at that type of playing used that setup, and the style sort of "grew around" that sound?

It's impossible to ascribe percentages of which-is-which, but in many/most cases it's probably some of both. And they feed back into each other, and reinforce one another.

A P bass with Flatwounds is the choice if you want to sound like old Motown records, for instance. But if James Jamerson had access to and had played a Music Man 5 string with roundwounds instead, perhaps THAT would be the sound... but if that's what he had played, other elements of those records would be different, too. Because everything impacts everything else. If Jamerson had employed a radically different sound, his function in the ensemble would've changed, which would've likewise altered everything the other musicians played (and the sounds THEY chose), and the productions, etc.

Selecting the right gear is really about understanding the culture in which you're operating... having a familiarity with the colors that are available, what those colors signify, and how you can use that to musical advantage in a given situation.

OR you could just have one thing that you like, and work hard to mold that to make it work in a variety of situations, curating the music you play to that which best fits your style.
I really enjoy this aspect of gear. I'm generally not someone who gets precious about traditions or doing things in the accepted way, but I play through Matamp stack because of that process you talk about.

I live in a one bedroom flat in the middle of a city. This amp is not suitable for home use. I don't gig. If I did gig, this amp would not be suitable for the venues I would be playing. It's much, much too loud for even the largest of local venues and besides, it is impractical to move. It is very much an anachronism. But it's what guitar music is supposed to sound like.
2 great comments on the subjective nature and the intermingled/codependent dynamics of sounds and tone.

Devotion over pragmatism, that’s pretty awesome.

I just can’t seem to settle on a single sound, in amps, speakers or effects. My guitars and basses are kind of homogeneous, though, whatever that’s a sign of.

There is a certain tightness of response and immediacy of the sound with 10” speakers, I find, as opposed to 12”, at least for guitar. My bass speakers are all 10s, 15s and an 18, don’t have any 12s.
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by Pacafeliz » Thu May 09, 2019 9:44 am

In my humble opinion, Marshall 1965 cabs (4x10) are the best allover cabs out there for guitar.
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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by Larsongs » Fri May 10, 2019 5:09 am

Recently I bought a Vox AC10C1 Amp as a Bedroom practice Amp. 10 Watt with Special Design Celestion VX10 10" speaker... It sounded awful! Upgraded to a Celestion Greenback Spkr. & it sounded much better. But not as good as I'd hoped.

I wanted an Alnico Blue but Celestion doesn't make a 10" Blue.. (Although IMO they should)

I saw a YouTube of a guy who put a Weber Blue type in his & it sounded great.. I contacted Weber & ordered one... It sounds much better than the other two 10" Speakers...

Yes, there is definitely a difference between Speakers.

Same with Tubes... Cheap Stock Chinese sounded shrill & hurt my ears. Tried some JJ's & it sounded better. Then I tried Tung Sol's & they sound the best....

Now it's a really good sounding Amp.

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Re: Is there a big difference...

Post by somanytoys » Sun May 12, 2019 10:05 am

Yes, everything matters and plays a part.

I have quite a few of the cheaper Vox AC4TVs, 10" combos and head/12" cabs. I believe that all of the tubes have been upgraded in all of them, they vary from JJ's to Tung Sol's to Mesa's. Each has a little different flavor, but then most of them also have different upgraded speakers.

Because of all of that, and possibly some small variances between manufacturing years, each one seems to have a bit of a unique sound, its own personality. I've tried to flow the different signal chains into the ones that seem to complement each chain's sound best, but that can also be subjective and can change over time.

The main thing, though, is that with pretty much the same circuits pushing all of them (although with different tubes), I find that the 10" combos scream a lot more than the 12" cabs. I realize that the combo cabs are smaller and the sound doesn't have the space to develop as fully as the 12" cabs, and that contributes to the difference as well. I've found the same with using a 12" speaker with my larger Fender & Marshall clones vs my Laney VC combo with 2x10s, but they're also different amp types.

Overall it seems that the 12" cabs are warm and rich, and give a deeper and more complicated 3D sound to the deeper modulated sounds & delays. But those 10" combos just stay right in your face and really define exactly what's going on, right up front. It's actually a nice balance using them together. It would be hard to pick using only one type over the other, for something like gigging. I think that the main concern would probably come down to size, weight & ease of moving them, so the little combos might win out in that case.
-David

It's a boost booster, to boost your boost - it makes your tone much muchier.

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