School me on Hiwatt/Reeves/Hi-Tone

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

So the latest seed of GAS on the amp front seems to be germinating, thinking a 50w Hiwatt type circuit in head form, but I have zero personal experience w/ them. Most of what I've read would point me towards either early - mid 70s actual Hiwatts or a Reeves offering. I've seen less info on the Hi-Tones but they seem pretty legit from what I have seen and in the same ballpark price wise as the other 2.

The Reeves seem like pretty cool options based on the feedback I've found, which seems fairly universally great. Available features also seem to be in their favor as well to me from a utility perspective(power scaling in theory would help alleviate one of my big concern for flexibility for me: that any of these would just be way too loud once in the sweet spot to use at home w/o a nice attenuator; tube driven spring tank would be a big plus if I went for the Space Cowboy assuming it's worth using; tube driven effects loop as an add on option would also be great to have available too). Discovering that they're based a few miles from my house was also kind of a cool thing and if I can't convince myself to kill this sproutling of a GAS-attack I'm hoping there's a possibility I might be able to test drive one before laying out any money (?)

The proper vintage Hiwatts would seem a bit cooler from the perspective of having the real deal, but I can honestly say I've never even seen one in person, for sale or otherwise, around here so it'd probably entail playing both vintage reliability and tonal preference roulette if I went that route. I'm also woefully ignorant of what to expect in practice or what exact years and models I'd be looking for. One of my motivators looking at any of these is Dmitri Coats' tones in OFF! (in addition to the awesome tones from the 70s that I'd guess most people think of when you say Hiwatt...) but I think his is from the early 80s and I'm not really sure what differences I'd expect between them.

The Hi-Tones seem more scarce in general and probably harder to get a hold of short of ordering a new one from them, but it seems like I'd be remiss if I wasn't looking at them too.

My main concern would be that 80% of the time any of the options would be way too loud once they're dialed for the sounds that would make them special. While I would expect it would be perfectly managable for me to near dime one when playing w/ the usual bass player and hard hitting drummer and I can happily live using pedals to goose an amp to give up the goods in lower volume scenarios, it would seem kind of pointless to grab one w/o a much nicer attenuator than what I've tried to date if I wasn't going to be able to work the amp hard enough to truly enjoy it below ear plugs required volume levels at home.

Any feedback, thoughts, opinions, and/or info would be greatly appreciated. There'd be alot worse things than if I managed to convince myself to forget I want one w/ some assistance too

[Bert Camenbert]

I have a Reeves custom 50, with a Reeves 2x12" cab that has their vintage purples in them. Mine doesn't have the power scaling. I've never played a vintage Hiwatt so I can't compare. I was going for a Duane Denison tone when I bought my Reeves, and it delivers that.

And yeah, these amps are loud, they have loads of headroom and they can feel a bit stiff. To get appreciable amounts of distortion out of them, one must play them at volumes that hurt if one is playing them in the same room. Your neighbours will hear you. The entire neighbourhood will hear you! They are also heavy and large. Plus, the vintage purple speakers are very efficient and toppy: with the Reeves cab, my Reeves sounds rather bright and in your face, which can a bit too much when I'm playing alone in my garage. I typically prefer an old open back Sunn cab that has a couple of ceramic Weber Legacy 12" speakers, which sounds a lot mellower and not as loud.

However, they sound lovely played clean: crystalline and clear. They reveal every nuance of your playing in a sometimes rather unforgiving way. And they're, in my opinion, one of the best pedals platforms out there. They will never fart-out, they will cut through any band like a scimitar of tone, and fuzzes and distortions will sound like Thor's hammer. If you like using loopers, they won't get overwhelmed by the signal of your recorded layers. And their wiring and build quality is a thing of beauty.

In fewer words: they sound great, I love mine, but they're totally impractical.

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

I have a Reeves custom 50, with a Reeves 2x12" cab that has their vintage purples in them. Mine doesn't have the power scaling. I've never played a vintage Hiwatt so I can't compare. I was going for a Duane Denison tone when I bought my Reeves, and it delivers that.

And yeah, these amps are loud, they have loads of headroom and they can feel a bit stiff. To get appreciable amounts of distortion out of them, one must play them at volumes that hurt if one is playing them in the same room. Your neighbours will hear you. The entire neighbourhood will hear you! They are also heavy and large. Plus, the vintage purple speakers are very efficient and toppy: with the Reeves cab, my Reeves sounds rather bright and in your face, which can a bit too much when I'm playing alone in my garage. I typically prefer an old open back Sunn cab that has a couple of ceramic Weber Legacy 12" speakers, which sounds a lot mellower and not as loud.

However, they sound lovely played clean: crystalline and clear. They reveal every nuance of your playing in a sometimes rather unforgiving way. And they're, in my opinion, one of the best pedals platforms out there. They will never fart-out, they will cut through any band like a scimitar of tone, and fuzzes and distortions will sound like Thor's hammer. If you like using loopers, they won't get overwhelmed by the signal of your recorded layers. And their wiring and build quality is a thing of beauty.

In fewer words: they sound great, I love mine, but they're totally impractical.

Thanks, that's some great feedback! Seems to reinforce my interest and confirm my concerns at the same time

The kinda crazy dichotomy of the fabled cleans and massive headroom and the really ubiquitous and awesome overdriven/fuzzed out sounds (on records/demos anyway...) when cranked/stompboxed is probably the biggest source of my current interest. Have you ever had the opportunity to use your Custom 50 attenuated? If so, how did it work out for you? I don't see myself gigging much in the immediate future but at the few local venues I have, I needed to use the Brake Lite for my non-MV Dr. Z Remedy to be friendly to the sound guy and/or the people up front. The cabs I'd see myself plugging this guy into are all closed back & loaded w/ a mix of Greenbacks, G12Hs, and G12 Golds so maybe not quite as efficient or bright as the Vintage Purples or Fanes(?)

I dunno if the universe is sending me a message (or, if so, what exactly it's trying to say... ), but my '65 Music Master sold tonight putting me what I'd expect to be at worst pretty close to a zero net outlay if I got off the fence on one of a few nice combos I've been trying to convince myself to sell over the past year or so. I'd probably wind up trying to move my VT-22 head to make space as well, that might cover a pretty nice attenuator... I might need to give Reeves a call and see if they can accommodate a brief test spin of a power scaling equipped Custom 50 in the near future...

Thanks again for the reply!

[Bert Camenbert]

Oh, you have aan Ampeg VT-22 too? I have a mid seventies VT-22 combo, the one with a MV. Not that that helps. I think we have similar tonal interests!

Anyway, if you found a way of making the VT-22 work for you, you'll probably be able to handle the Reeves. They have some similarities, except that the Reeves EQ doesn't do much compared to the endless possibilities of the VT-22 EQ.

I mail ordered my Reeves more than a decade ago, but I remember that it was a pleasant experience: they had a good costumer service back then. If things haven't changed, I'm sure they will be happy to accommodate you.

I've never used my Reeves attenuated. The Reeves power scaling has a good rep, I think I would go that way before trying an attenuator. You should try it out if you can and give us your opinion. You should also try the combo version, which only has a single vintage purple.

I've been thinking of eventually getting a 6V6 amp, and the Remedy is on my list, along with the Z-28. I think the Remedy can be played on half-power. Does that make a difference in terms of volume?

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

Oh, you have an Ampeg VT-22 too? I have a mid seventies VT-22 combo, the one with a MV. Not that that helps. I think we have similar tonal interests!

Anyway, if you found a way of making the VT-22 work for you, you'll probably be able to handle the Reeves. They have some similarities, except that the Reeves EQ doesn't do much compared to the endless possibilities of the VT-22 EQ.

I've never used my Reeves attenuated. The Reeves power scaling has a good rep, I think I would go that way before trying an attenuator. You should try it out if you can and give us your opinion. You should also try the combo version, which only has a single vintage purple.

I've been thinking of eventually getting a 6V6 amp, and the Remedy is on my list, along with the Z-28. I think the Remedy can be played on half-power. Does that make a difference in terms of volume?

LOL, I think you're right

My VT22 head came to me w/ a fairly well functioning, purportedly post PI master volume installed on the back of the chassis. Pulling a couple of power tubes helps too IME. It's still a good sounding clean amp at low-ish volume home practice/noodling volumes, but it's still surprising every time I risk a hernia/slipped disk moving it to crank it up w/ the guys, which has been a minute at this point. In a way, I'd hope a 50W Hiwatt-alike might give me a slightly more manageable (volume and weight wise), British flavored version of the same experience.

The couple of newer Remedys I've encountered have what seem to me to be a pretty usable master volume, but I've only given them brief spins. The half power switch on mine does make for a significant reduction in volume but it still needs a clean boost w/ all but the highest output pickups I've tried through it and a few ticks of the Brake Lite to get into the crunch and not feel self conscious about bugging the neighbors when I feel the need to rock after 10PM. It's a pretty impressively loud amp on full.

It's kind of the same story w/ my Z28, although w/ half the power to start w/ it's more a question of getting to the crunch before I'm over powering the stereo at moderate listening volume. It seems to retain more of its dynamics and bloom w/ a couple ticks of the Brake Lite than my Remedy but I think it is a bit more alive at lower volumes to start with. I think the Z28 is the more livable and versatile amp between to the two for my tastes, I've never gigged it but jamming at the shop or the drummer's house, I've never felt I needed more volume or headroom than it could provide outside of maybe some energetic Minutemen covers when I want to dig in fairly heavy but still stay on the clean side of crunch.

[Bert Camenbert]

Cool! Thanks for the Z-28 review. It seems that some people, particularly those who had -28 combos, have complained about the EF86 in the preamp being microphonic. Did you have problems with that?

[wooderson]

I have a 50W Science Mother - it's Hiwatt-based with some Matamp/Orange touches (FAC-like depth control). I have no direct experience with actual Hiwatts or clones but it's a great clean platform that can cover a lot of ground.

Speakers matter a lot, though - I picked Celestion Redbacks for the 2x12 it came with, they were okay but had a piercing spike in the upper register. Swapped them for Fane Ascensions, which took care of the spike but they sound like Celestion G12Hs to me, they kind of dulled the sound overall.

What worked best so far is my Reactive Load w/ an IR of actual Fane speakers. Even with the compromises of running into a reactive load and everything, the sound feels more lively with the Fane IR - tighter bass but bright.

I've had 2 Hi-Tone DR-F (vintage Fane clones) speakers backordered for a while, I should probably check in to see what's up with them. My instinct is that they'll be the speaker I've been looking for.

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

Cool! Thanks for the Z-28 review. It seems that some people, particularly those who had -28 combos, have complained about the EF86 in the preamp being microphonic. Did you have problems with that?

I've had no issues w/ microphonics on mine but it's a head and it leaves the house maybe a couple times a month if I'm lucky any more. I grabbed it used a few years ago, and haven't had to do anything w/ it aside from replace the 6V6s a couple times. The New Sensor Tung Sols don't seem to last long in this amp or the Remedy using them w/ the Brake Light most of the time, but they sound really good to me...

The EF86 seems to do well in the Maz Jr. combo too. I would maybe have a spare on hand for piece of mind but I wouldn't let it stop me from an EF86 amp that I really liked (which so far has been every one I've tried ).

I have a 50W Science Mother - it's Hiwatt-based with some Matamp/Orange touches (FAC-like depth control). I have no direct experience with actual Hiwatts or clones but it's a great clean platform that can cover a lot of ground.

Speakers matter a lot, though - I picked Celestion Redbacks for the 2x12 it came with, they were okay but had a piercing spike in the upper register. Swapped them for Fane Ascensions, which took care of the spike but they sound like Celestion G12Hs to me, they kind of dulled the sound overall.

What worked best so far is my Reactive Load w/ an IR of actual Fane speakers. Even with the compromises of running into a reactive load and everything, the sound feels more lively with the Fane IR - tighter bass but bright.

I've had 2 Hi-Tone DR-F (vintage Fane clones) speakers backordered for a while, I should probably check in to see what's up with them. My instinct is that they'll be the speaker I've been looking for.

That Mother sounds like a really intriguing fusion to me and seems to have really great gain range judging by their clips. Is the OD input usable in a footswitchable manner for you? They make it sound like it might be too big of a volume difference to be practical to use w/o twiddling knobs.

If I can't manage the Reeves test drive, I might have to try to perform further recon on these.

[Domm]

I've been a hiwatt style amp fanboy for a while and I personally think the hitone stuff is king for modern version of these amps. The 30 watt versions are built on 100 watt architecture just using 6v6 tubes. Sound just incredible

[wooderson]

That Mother sounds like a really intriguing fusion to me and seems to have really great gain range judging by their clips. Is the OD input usable in a footswitchable manner for you? They make it sound like it might be too big of a volume difference to be practical to use w/o twiddling knobs.

If I can't manage the Reeves test drive, I might have to try to perform further recon on these.

The OD channel is an odd one - the footswitch doesn't switch between clean and OD, when you're plugged into that input the OD circuit is always on at minimum (which is cleanish - chords still have a lot of clarity) - the footswitch is for when you have the knob turned up, switching between OD minimum and whatever OD setting you have dialed in.

I don't really use that input at all, I'm more used to my various pedals.

[Bert Camenbert]

Sid, if you manage to test a four input custom 50, you should bridge the bright and normal channel with a pedal patch cord. The EQs on these amps don't do much: they work, but they're subtle. Because the amp sounds so good from the get go, it's not a problem. But blending the bassier normal channel with the treblier bright channel provides a bit more flexibility.

[s_mcsleazy]

if i can remember rightly, sound city stuff was loosely based on the hiwatt stuff.

honestly. i like the hiwatt stuff i've played. my old bandmate used to use a modern hiwatt 50w into a vox 4x12 and pair that with an AC30. sounded pretty good all in all.

[Bert Camenbert]

if i can remember rightly, sound city stuff was loosely based on the hiwatt stuff.

honestly. i like the hiwatt stuff i've played. my old bandmate used to use a modern hiwatt 50w into a vox 4x12 and pair that with an AC30. sounded pretty good all in all.

Dave Reeves, the guy behind Hiwatt, started building amps under contract for Sound City and then, a few years later, started Hiwatt, so logically it's Hiwatt that must be loosely based on Sound City.

[i love sharin foo]

if i can remember rightly, sound city stuff was loosely based on the hiwatt stuff.

honestly. i like the hiwatt stuff i've played. my old bandmate used to use a modern hiwatt 50w into a vox 4x12 and pair that with an AC30. sounded pretty good all in all.

Dave Reeves, the guy behind Hiwatt, started building amps under contract for Sound City and then, a few years later, started Hiwatt, so logically it's Hiwatt that must be loosely based on Sound City.

I believe it was just the early 100 watt Sound Cities that had any parallels with Hiwatt, wasn't it? I know the 50s and the 120s were something entirely different.

[Sid Nitzerglobin]

Thanks a lot for the feedback every one! It's all great stuff.

Since it's the easiest way to get my toes wet in the Hiwatt type pond & it's feeling like they've got the most compelling set of possible upsides for me at this point, I'm going to shoot Reeves an email this afternoon about that test drive.