The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

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Larsongs
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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by Larsongs » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:07 am

I bought a a Special Design Weber DP10-P Speaker designed to fit my AC10, with smaller Cab, that replicates a Celestion Alnico Blue. It does a very good job.

I'm curious about their 10F-150 for my Princeton. Does it really sound like a Jensen C10-N?

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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:09 pm

This is more of a curiosity, than something that deserves its own topic. Seeing how I'm looking at getting a Princeton in the near future, I thought this would be the place to ask anywho.

For any of you guys who've lived or at least played in different countries, have you noticed a difference in tone from the same amp in the US (120V/60hz) vs Europe (110V/50hz)?
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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by Subotnik » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:12 am

Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:09 pm
This is more of a curiosity, than something that deserves its own topic. Seeing how I'm looking at getting a Princeton in the near future, I thought this would be the place to ask anywho.

For any of you guys who've lived or at least played in different countries, have you noticed a difference in tone from the same amp in the US (120V/60hz) vs Europe (110V/50hz)?
That's a good question. I'm about to convert my amp from 120V/60hz to 230V/60hz. I've wondered if it affects the tone at all. In theory I think it should not, as long as everything inside is working as it should. Note that Europe generally uses 220V - 240V (you mentioned 110V, likely a typo).

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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by sookwinder » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:04 am

Larsongs wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:07 am
I bought a a Special Design Weber DP10-P Speaker designed to fit my AC10, with smaller Cab, that replicates a Celestion Alnico Blue. It does a very good job.

I'm curious about their 10F-150 for my Princeton. Does it really sound like a Jensen C10-N?
why are you concerned whether it sounds like a Jensen.
Th only, the best, the traditional vintage 10" for a P or PR is an Oxford 10"

To answer your question the weber has a vintage sound to it and when used in a lower powered 2 x 6V6 am certainly sounds like vintage equipment
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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:14 am

Subotnik wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:12 am
Shadoweclipse13 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:09 pm
This is more of a curiosity, than something that deserves its own topic. Seeing how I'm looking at getting a Princeton in the near future, I thought this would be the place to ask anywho.

For any of you guys who've lived or at least played in different countries, have you noticed a difference in tone from the same amp in the US (120V/60hz) vs Europe (110V/50hz)?
That's a good question. I'm about to convert my amp from 120V/60hz to 230V/60hz. I've wondered if it affects the tone at all. In theory I think it should not, as long as everything inside is working as it should. Note that Europe generally uses 220V - 240V (you mentioned 110V, likely a typo).
I knew that Europe was 50hz electricity, but I thought you guys were 110V as well. I didn't realize that it was 220V standard over there. The reason I ask is because I saw a video a few years ago (Guitar Moves - Blake Mills), and halfway through he mentions that he was asked to go to Cuba to record an album. He mentioned that everything sounded different down there, and in the same relevant thought mentioned that Cuba has strange electricity. I think it would be interesting to test out. But maybe there aren't any differences.
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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by kosmonautmayhem » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:54 am

You could get a variac and lower the voltage a bit to brown it out. That changes the feel and sound to some degree - akin to lower wall voltages back in the day. Not sure if 50 vs 60Hz makes much a difference in sound. I think Cuba has an old and unstable grid so I'm sure voltages probably stray. Thats probably what he's hearing.

Re - the C-10N I've never played a real one but the Weber is made to be very similar or ballpark to that speaker. The earliest incarnation is actually labeled as a Weber C10N - I have one in my 6G2. :ph34r: You can't go wrong with the Weber stuff.

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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by andy_tchp » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:51 am

The hum is slightly lower pitched - by 10Hz :)

But as pointed out, UK is 230V (and most countries are 220V-240V).

I'd guess differences would be subtle to non-existent, but I've never had the chance to change the selector from 230V to 117V on my amps so equipped (and can't see myself shipping a Vibrosonic Reverb over to the states...)

The internal voltages should be very close to the same. But on that FWIW, tolerances here mean the outlet can be providing anywhere between 216V and 253V in the 'allowable' range - 'Preferred' range is 225V-244V.

So on any given day the internal voltages could be slightly different depending on the condition of the power delivery network, which would have a subtle effect on tone and 'feel' of an amp I reckon, so not out if the realm of possibility.

Has anyone here ever gone through the hassle of shipping an 'export' Fender amp to the US and experienced a noticeable difference?
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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by sookwinder » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:45 am

At least in Oz wall voltages can vary between 218 and 251. I have measured these myself. Admittedly the low side was during summer when everyone was using AC and the high one was at about 3AM. This is why when I have built/repaired amps the first thing you do is check wall voltage, otherwise voltages can be way off.

that is also one of the reasons Leo had +/-20% on his drawings.
Plus the voltages on the schematics were obviously the first or second or third prototype and are not necessarily "average voltage values"
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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by Larsongs » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:52 am

sookwinder wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:04 am
Larsongs wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:07 am
I bought a a Special Design Weber DP10-P Speaker designed to fit my AC10, with smaller Cab, that replicates a Celestion Alnico Blue. It does a very good job.

I'm curious about their 10F-150 for my Princeton. Does it really sound like a Jensen C10-N?
why are you concerned whether it sounds like a Jensen.
Th only, the best, the traditional vintage 10" for a P or PR is an Oxford 10"

To answer your question the weber has a vintage sound to it and when used in a lower powered 2 x 6V6 am certainly sounds like vintage equipment
I admit I'm not an expert on Fender Speakers.. I'm not unhappy with my '65 PRRI & think they sound great out of the box. Although I'm always interested to know if there is an improvement to be had..

Can you get a new Oxford 10? Or does Weber make one that simulates one that sounds great?

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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by sookwinder » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:29 pm

Oxford closed its doors years ago.
Go with the Weber 10F-150 … maybe the 25watt version (assuming you aren't planning to thrash it)
FYI the Jensen company that currently sells speakers is not the same Jensen company from the 50s, 60s, 70s.
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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:05 pm

kosmonautmayhem wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:54 am
You could get a variac and lower the voltage a bit to brown it out. That changes the feel and sound to some degree - akin to lower wall voltages back in the day. Not sure if 50 vs 60Hz makes much a difference in sound. I think Cuba has an old and unstable grid so I'm sure voltages probably stray. Thats probably what he's hearing.
I never thought of getting a variac to try that. Hmm...

andy_tchp wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:51 am
The hum is slightly lower pitched - by 10Hz :)

But as pointed out, UK is 230V (and most countries are 220V-240V).

I'd guess differences would be subtle to non-existent, but I've never had the chance to change the selector from 230V to 117V on my amps so equipped (and can't see myself shipping a Vibrosonic Reverb over to the states...)

The internal voltages should be very close to the same. But on that FWIW, tolerances here mean the outlet can be providing anywhere between 216V and 253V in the 'allowable' range - 'Preferred' range is 225V-244V.

So on any given day the internal voltages could be slightly different depending on the condition of the power delivery network, which would have a subtle effect on tone and 'feel' of an amp I reckon, so not out if the realm of possibility.

Has anyone here ever gone through the hassle of shipping an 'export' Fender amp to the US and experienced a noticeable difference?
Good point. I hadn't thought about the internal voltages. The transformers between US and Europe amps are likely manufactured to have the same voltage on the output side of the transformer. I'd still love to try it just for the hell of it, but I agree that there likely isn't much of a difference in sound, if any. I just to like observe and experiment. I swear I should've been a scientist :D
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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by Beltone » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:00 am

I have a few questions about Princetons I'm hoping to get some help with.

1) Does anyone here use a Princeton for Jazz tones? I've found one convincing video on youtube, but am curious to hear what others have experienced.

2) If/when you do use it for jazz, what settings do you usually dial it in at?

3) Does anyone have the Tweed edition with the Cannabis Rex speaker? What are your impressions of it? How does it compare to some of the other speaker options if you had a chance to A/B a pair?

If some background helps, I'm looking to get a tube amp with a nice clean, classic jazz tone. Trying to avoid the larger footprint and weight of a George Benson. I'm currently renting a head and cab that breaks up really well, but I realize that crunch just isn't really a priority for me at this stage of my life and playing. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Beltone on Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by Maggieo » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:03 am

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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by scottydanger » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:22 am

What's up, Princeton thread? I finally picked up another 65 PRRI after selling mine 2 years ago and moving to a Vibrolux. I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I sold it (probably that I was broke and couldn't afford to keep two amps) but I'm SO GLAD that I fixed that mistake. What a phenomenal amp. I'm going to keep it stock except maybe for some JJs in the preamp.

Fun question - does anyone make a matching extension cabinet? I'd love to get one that matches almost exactly that I could put another 10 or 12 (or if some cabinet wizard out there can cram a 15 into a PRRI-width box!). If I can get a little more volume from this thing I can chuck my Vibrolux, but I don't want to compromise the stock sound with some efficient 12" since that's the whole reason I bought it.

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Re: The comprehensive PRINCETON thread

Post by wproffitt » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:29 am

I’m pretty sure that Peter Mather at Mathercab.com could make you whatever you want. He did the cab for my 5e9 build and it was PERFECT!
Last edited by wproffitt on Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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