Effect to use for small delay in second distorted signal

[somanytoys]

I posted this somewhere else, but would really like to get some opinions, so I started another thread.

This is for bass. I'd like to figure out the best way to have the distorted sound from my high-drive pedal chain kick in to its amp just a fraction of a second after the clean sound hits the other amp, so that the distorted sound kind of splatters in just behind the clean sound every time I hit a note. Sort of like the onset of a Moog or synth can, I guess, a clean sound initially that quickly blooms, may be the best way to put it.

Not like a delay with any repeats, but like a quick attack & release setting on a compressor, or some kind of limiter, I'm guessing. I was also thinking last night about trying my VFE Bumblebee, a slowgear clone with a compressor, but that sometimes doesn't "restart" the ramp, if you play again too soon.

Any advice or suggestions? I'll probably try the Bumblebee tonight, and then my Keeley comp if that doesn't work so well. Then I'm kind of out of ideas. Except maybe to try to have a delay mute the original note, and play the single repeat quickly. I'm sure there's a better way.

[DarnWeight]

Yeah, a short digital delay set to a single repeat and 100% wet sounds the easiest way of doing this, particularly as it sounds like you have a split wet/dry setup anyway. If you're looking to soften up the distorted sound a bit, then the EHX Analogizer might work. Never tried one myself, but it does do very short delays (3-60ms), and will go 100% wet.

[somanytoys]

Thanks, I appreciate the response.

That does make sense, I was thinking that a compressor with fast reaction settings both ways would be able to sort of "clutch" the distorted sound for a fraction of a second, then let it continue to breathe until it clutches the next note, etc.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that I have an extra delay that I can choose 100% wet with. The 2 extra that I have, that I can think of off the top of my head, is a Keeley 30MS and a VFE Yodeler. Not sure if there's a mix knob on either, I'll have to check.

Duh, I also have an extra Zoom CDR, and those things have 5 versions of everything. If I can't do it with something in there, I guess it can't be done! lol

This should be interesting...

[øøøøøøø]

What about a Maestro ME-1 envelope modifier in line before the distortion in your parallel path?

[Drill]

What about reeeeeeeaaallllyyyyyyy loooooooongggg caaaableeeesss?

[chrisrnps]

Try it with the comp idea using what you’ve already got, then a simple delay pedal that can do a single repeat with no dry signal if that doesn’t work. Some delay pedals have separate outputs for dry vs. delay sound.

[min7b5]

What about a delay that you can change the tails effect on?
The DOD rubber neck has a switch that you can change the effect of what the delay hits.
First option turns off the dry signal completely and you only here your delay tone, which is delayed from your pick attack

[fuzzjunkie]

Are you looking for a Separation? And swell??

Then the Electro Harmonix Attack Decay might be the ticket? The delay time starts around 35ms where the ear first starts to hear the separation and the note can swell up if you want it, but it does a lot more:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... gKPAfD_BwE

If you just want a stereo spread w/o a noticeable 2nd note?

The classic way is a stereo Chorus pedal like a Boss or Ibanez. The delay is 10-20ms and the signal gets flipped 180 degrees for a wider stereo spread and the initial attack would be clean but the fuzz would blend into that.

[somanytoys]

Thanks, those are all really good ideas, I appreciate it. Especially the cable trick!!

Basically, I have almost as many options as I could want. I'm splitting the looper signal (or when I actually play the bass live) into a Lehle 1 @ 3, so of those 3, there are 2 signals going to larger amps - a clean SWR and a dirtier Tech 21 GED 2112 -> power amp, but I don't usually use those as much (sort of overkill most of the time).

I usually just use the 3rd signal from the Lehle to go into a Tech 21 VT DI, which feeds into a PA for my SVT "cleaner" sound. Then I'm going out of its parallel out through the Jext Telez pedals for the dirt, which currently goes into an IVP preamp pedal and into the send of an Acoustic head (to just use the poweramp). It's that final signal that I want to stifle for a fraction of a second every time it engages, to bloom over the clean signal that will be unimpeded.

I tried the Keeley compressor on that signal, I dimed the attack but there isn't a knob to adjust separately for the release time, apparently they're tied together, so I think I'm only getting halfway there. It did seem to make a bit of a difference, barely noticeable but I think it's there, so I think I'm on the right track.

The next things I'm going to try is pulling out my VFE White Horse and see how that works in place of the Keeley. it also only has a single knob for attack & release, so I'll have to see if it makes much difference. I'm also going to pull out my VFE Bumblebee and give that a shot, since it's a compressor and a slow gear clone combined. Maybe somewhere between a compressor and a slow gear is where I'll find what I'm looking for.

I guess my last attempt will be to find a delay on the Zoom that has an all wet setting, dial out the dry signal and set the single repeat time to try to control it. The Keeley 30MS doesn't seem to have a dry kill in normal mode, but I think it might go all wet in the Pro Tracker stereo mode, and I just don't use the dry out option, which seems like kind of a pain in the ass anyway. I may have to check that out.

Seems like kind of a lot of work for something I thought of on a whim, but seems like would also sound pretty cool and be worth it to have on tap in the end, especially with 3 different types of fuzz or distortion to choose from. With all of the effects I have and use with guitar, I don't use all that much for bass, so this would be pretty cool.

[fuzzjunkie]

I think the Bumblebee should do what you want. The Attack Decay might as well with the right setting but is probably overkill. The Zoom should certainly do it with a delay @ 60ms.

I used to Fuzz my delay on one song. It was a longer delay, 500ms and the mix was lower like 25%, and just one repeat. Clean note, then a later fuzzy echo.

[somanytoys]

I'm hoping so. I found that the envelope doesn't always close fast enough if you're trying to use it for a swell and play a little too fast or don't let a note die off enough before the next one. But after thinking about it, I'm hoping that it will be more suited for this application.

I assume that there's a delay in the Zoom that will allow for an all wet signal only, but I'll have to either read or cycle through them to see. That's what I'm going to do if the Bumblebee doesn't work.

I'm thinking that something like a gate isn't going to be the best option, unless I could maybe somehow trigger it to open with a slight delay by setting a threshold from the first signal. That might be doable in a studio, but way too complicated for just a pedal chain. There has to be an easy-ish solution with things that I already have.

That sounds pretty cool, I'll have to keep something like that in mind for other applications. I used to do that on my Keeley modded DD-3, chain in an effect and it only hit the repeat, but I could never quite get past that there was only a single repeat for the dry signal. But I loved the hold feature on that thing.

[somanytoys]

Okay, I got home tonight and was determined to do this.

I pulled out the Bumblebee, did a little reading up on it, and swapped it out with the Keeley comp (front of that signal chain). It took a little playing with, but it works really, really well for only playing with it for a few minutes so far. I think maybe with some more tweaking it might get even better, but it’s mostly there in doing just what I want.

I found the best setting so far to have the mix set about midway between the comp & swell (I think it’s comp ccw and swell cw), level at around midway or so, sort of at unity volume (which may need to change), switch on fast setting (medium is interesting, too), and sustain & attack knobs are pretty much dimed. Release is tied to the attack knob on this pedal, too. Once there, the trigger knob is the big factor in finding the sweet spot to try to suppress the onset enough and allow the swell to really bloom the distortion up.

I’m really stoked about this, because it’s just pretty cool, and because that was the first VFE pedal I ever bought, but I never found a really great use for it. I was better and more consistent with using a volume pedal, reverse/gated reverb and things like that for guitar. I love realizing or finding cool new uses for old stuff I already have, that’s as good as any new pedal day. And cheaper.

Thanks for all of the advice and help, all good info and I really appreciate it. (the long cables thing still cracks me up). I wanted to post what ended up working for me, in case it helps anyone in the future. I’ve learned a LOT of good shit from the people on this website.

[Drill]

Now you have to post some sound clips/videos!

[somanytoys]

Yeah, I should. I will. I haven't fired up my recording computer in quite a while, but I need to.

I also need to do an audio recording comparison of an Analog Mike Beano and an AM/Jext Telez Range Lord with OC44 Yellow Jackets in them, for the guy I bought the Beano from.

I don't have a host site account for pics or videos, but I think I can link to a clip from Soundcloud here, once I make a clip & upload it there. It's a long weekend for me, I'll try to record a good clip of it sometime this weekend and post it here.

[somanytoys]

Okay, I did a direct-in capture of a bass loop I did along with a Beatbuddy drum machine. It's a loop that I don’t really use very much, but I thought this loop would bring the effect out pretty well, considering how difficult it is to adjust the swell time when playing faster notes, as opposed to just hitting a note and letting it swell.
I used a Jext Telez Dizzy Tone V5 set for really deep fuzz, for better contrast/effect on the 2nd chain.

https://soundcloud.com/user-795205871/b ... bass-swell

I'm not very good with recording software (I can capture and half-assed mix...and bounce), but I could also pan the distorted signal to one side only, if anyone would be interested in that for some reason.