When Clapton was God

[Larry Mal]

Is there a reason EC's music - which I can completely understand someone finding boring, even my favourite bits - strikes you as especially masculine?

He's not being quite serious.

[MechaBulletBill]

Is there a reason EC's music - which I can completely understand someone finding boring, even my favourite bits - strikes you as especially masculine?

He's not being quite serious.

I get it now

[scottT]

Bill, as I posted before, I'm already on board with your take. i.e. that a lot of these performers (especially when it was easy to get away with it) lived lives that wouldn't pass scrutiny. The other day, I did a search on Pamela Des Barres (doesn't everyone?) you know, the famous groupie. I was having a conversation with someone and I couldn't remember which one she was. In the process I turned up an apparently well known underage girl who was also in that circle of girls who did the rounds getting passed around from rock star to rock star. Recalling it now, Bowie was her first. Now, we recently paid loving tribute to the man upon his death.

I notice a trend among OSG's hipper younger demo that when some famous rock star of a bygone era is brought up--with the expectation that it's their work we would be discussing--almost immediately it evolves into discussions of their personal character, foibles, or something offensive they did or said. This is even to the point of sentiments like, "fuck him he's a horrible human being and deserves to be forgotten" as seen here.

Now, I don't blame you for bringing up wife beatings and the like. There apparently is no statute of limitations on bad behavior in the minds of some, nor am I arguing there should be. These people are responsible for their actions and it's up to each of us to decide to what extent it impacts their musical legacies. When they did these things, they obviously didn't envision a day when generations yet unborn would be able to keep this stuff alive in perpetuity on internet forums. Sucks for them. So when I asked if the internet would one day rehabilitate Clapton's reputation, andy_tchp may be right--"probably not".

[Singlebladepickup]

I notice a trend among OSG's hipper younger demo that when some famous rock star of a bygone era is brought up--with the expectation that it's their work we would be discussing--almost immediately it evolves into discussions of their personal character, foibles, or something offensive they did or said.

I think the title of this thread makes that type of discussion especially relevant. People who worship rockstars like Gods have to willfully disregard the fact that almost every one of them has treated people like shit or abused someone. You can like the music of Roy Harper even if you think he abused children, or Eric Clapton if he was a racist (which apparently he most certainly was). Just don't treat them like Gods.

The thing with rockstars fucking underage Groupies is bad, but it seems like that's a different discussion involving age of consent. I don't want to get into the same mess as Quentin Tarantino did with the Howard Stern interview about Roman Polanski's rape case, so I'll just leave it there.

[shadowplay]

Bill, as I posted before, I'm already on board with your take. i.e. that a lot of these performers (especially when it was easy to get away with it) lived lives that wouldn't pass scrutiny. The other day, I did a search on Pamela Des Barres (doesn't everyone?) you know, the famous groupie. I was having a conversation with someone and I couldn't remember which one she was. In the process I turned up an apparently well known underage girl who was also in that circle of girls who did the rounds getting passed around from rock star to rock star. Recalling it now, Bowie was her first. Now, we recently paid loving tribute to the man upon his death.

I notice a trend among OSG's hipper younger demo that when some famous rock star of a bygone era is brought up--with the expectation that it's their work we would be discussing--almost immediately it evolves into discussions of their personal character, foibles, or something offensive they did or said. This is even to the point of sentiments like, "fuck him he's a horrible human being and deserves to be forgotten" as seen here.

Now, I don't blame you for bringing up wife beatings and the like. There apparently is no statute of limitations on bad behavior in the minds of some, nor am I arguing there should be. These people are responsible for their actions and it's up to each of us to decide to what extent it impacts their musical legacies. When they did these things, they obviously didn't envision a day when generations yet unborn would be able to keep this stuff alive in perpetuity on internet forums. Sucks for them. So when I asked if the internet would one day rehabilitate Clapton's reputation, andy_tchp may be right--"probably not".

What Clapton did was atrocious, so bad that they started Rock Against Racism. He never apologised and he got away with it when most other artists would have been ostracised and if he said it today he'd be arrested for hate speech. I'm mixed race and I fucking tell you the things he said and his ilk directly made my life hard in the 70's and early 80's. I'm the fighting type and I kicked the living shit out of anyone who called me a wog but other kids lives were hell. That I hate his music is a mere bonus and his Red Wing signature boot was a clown shoe.

I'm 51, so not in the younger hipper demo, maybe hip replacement and I've honestly never known anyone my age into him, he's the music of yer mates totally uncool sideburned dad, who stuck his head round the door when you were listening to music and told you it was all noise.

It's my opinion that the whole boomer rawk generation have had enough publicity and the sooner they all stop the better as far as I'm concerned. Half the time I'm upset when they die because you'll actually get more if them and even their shit will be transmogrified into gold.

Looking at the music section at the moment I'm thinking we can't be far off another Guns N Roses thread.

D

[Grey]

^ For someone who claims to love music so much you're awfully intolerant of what other people listen to.

[shadowplay]

^ For someone who claims to love music so much you're awfully intolerant of what other people listen to.

I guess, I'm totally baffled by folk into shite like Clappo, I mean of all the thousands of things to start a thread about, consider me quite by astonished by Clappo floating to the top. It's like going to a nice restaurant and asking them to skip their signature dish and prepare you the scrapings from the bin. Not just that it's him, mostly that the chances of anyone saying anything interesting about such a dead horse are slim to none.

D

[Singlebladepickup]

I wonder if he has ever obtained a Ferrari by trading for blow, or vice versa.

[Grey]

I guess, I'm totally baffled by folk into shite like Clappo, I mean of all the thousands of things to start a thread about, consider me quite by astonished by Clappo floating to the top. It's like going to a nice restaurant and asking them to skip their signature dish and prepare you the scrapings from the bin. Not just that it's him, mostly that the chances of anyone saying anything interesting about such a dead horse are slim to none.

D

I don't like Clapton much either, but there's a difference between hating the music and hating the people who listen to that music, and around here more often than not it seems like we spend a little to much time reveling in the latter. Sometimes the amount of vitrol in these threads surprises me, and I guess i've come to expect a little more understanding from a forum full of music lovers. Surely there's merit in any form of music, is there not?

I apologize for dragging Larry into one of my rants but even he deleted his original post and managed to find a decent thing or two to say about Clapton's music just for the sake of (what I assume) acknowledging that some people really do like the guy. Maybe a little bit of mutual respect for that, not necessairly for Clapton himself but for the people who were genuinely inspired by him or otherwise enjoyed his music, isn't such a bad thing.

[shadowplay]

I wonder if he has ever obtained a Ferrari by trading for blow, or vice versa.

He had a gorgeous 250GT SWB, gorgeous. Has a bit of a dodgy/vulgar racing stripe but still super desirable...once you've had the painters in to remove it.

Grey: you are correct, I'm weak and the high road is often obscured by fog.

D

[Larry Mal]

So, I don't know how old you are, Grey, but David and myself are of pretty similar age. I can tell you that being a child of the Baby Boom generation, I very much resented having that generation's music and art shoved down my throat quite a bit.

I mean, Cream was almost twenty years old by the time I was listening to them, and yet they were on the radio every day, so was Led Zeppelin, so was Bad Company, all that shit. I had to work hard to listen to the music of my generation because there wasn't actually room on the radio dial for that stuff, and it wasn't always carried in the stores, no internet, and all that.

Growing up I would have quite a bit of resentment about that, and I see quite a bit of that in what David is talking about. Granted, I'm like an old man now myself, and my children are in no danger of being culturally smothered by my own generation just because there is so much media out there that it would be impossible to accomplish.

But back in the day, trust me, I resented the shit out of Eric Clapton's bad beer commercial blooze being on the radio all the time. I listened to it, because I'm a musician and I listen to music whether or not I think I'm going to like it (or I used to) in an effort to learn. But I sure did resent all that stuff.

[Grey]

So, I don't know how old you are, Grey, but David and myself are of pretty similar age. I can tell you that being a child of the Baby Boom generation, I very much resented having that generation's music and art shoved down my throat quite a bit.

I mean, Cream was almost twenty years old by the time I was listening to them, and yet they were on the radio every day, so was Led Zeppelin, so was Bad Company, all that shit. I had to work hard to listen to the music of my generation because there wasn't actually room on the radio dial for that stuff, and it wasn't always carried in the stores, no internet, and all that.

Growing up I would have quite a bit of resentment about that, and I see quite a bit of that in what David is talking about. Granted, I'm like an old man now myself, and my children are in no danger of being culturally smothered by my own generation just because there is so much media out there that it would be impossible to accomplish.

But back in the day, trust me, I resented the shit out of Eric Clapton's bad beer commercial blooze being on the radio all the time. I listened to it, because I'm a musician and I listen to music whether or not I think I'm going to like it (or I used to) in an effort to learn. But I sure did resent all that stuff.

I do appreciate the explanation, taken in this context it makes more sense to me. I've had to sit through my fair share of terrible music on the radio, and i've had plenty of assumptions made about the kind of music I listen to based both on age and appearance, espically when I was actively playing out. I wouldn't say I developed any resentment twords those bands because of it, or for being typecast with bands I despise, but I can understand where it comes from.

[scottT]

^ For someone who claims to love music so much you're awfully intolerant of what other people listen to.

I guess, I'm totally baffled by folk into shite like Clappo, I mean of all the thousands of things to start a thread about, consider me quite by astonished by Clappo floating to the top. It's like going to a nice restaurant and asking them to skip their signature dish and prepare you the scrapings from the bin. Not just that it's him, mostly that the chances of anyone saying anything interesting about such a dead horse are slim to none.

D

I'm baffled too, but for other reasons, which is why I started this thread. Someone earlier called him "polarizing" and I have certainly found this to be true, which seems ridiculous to me. As you said, he's quite innocuous and irrelevant now. I might expect such a strong reaction from OSG which has a decidedly anti-blues bias (or more accurately, anti-white person playing blues bias) but I have found similar reactions over the years on other music forums.

I have actually found out many interesting things I didn't know or haven't thought about, including the reason for your animus against him. Obviously if you hold Eric Clapton personally or indirectly responsible for making your life hard, that raises things to a whole other level.

I also wondered if it was possible to distance ourselves from what he may have said or recorded some years after what I consider his best work and acknowledge that whatever might have become of him musically, he did some great work.

But now I see that this won't be possible for many who believe that whenever he made those remarks, it shows that he always harbored such thoughts, and therefore it taints everything he ever did. I had to look those comment up. I wasn't aware of the extent of what he said. I don't think he is excusing them. In this case it's best to do a mia culpa and throw yourself on the mercy of the court of public opinion. For myself, they are SO bizarre and SO over the top that I can imagine him foaming at the mouth. It simply does not make sense in the context of what we know of him publicly over the totality of his career. I really hope it was a drug and stress related psychotic episode. But once read, it can't be forgotten. He owns it and knows he has to live with it.

But by far the biggest problem people seem to have is musically. Many victims of collateral damage from being force fed or subjected to endless blues jams with Clapton wannabes.

[shadowplay]

To be fair I've not even got the on the radio all the time excuse as that didn't fly in the UK. For me it all goes back to the likes of him being in guitar magazines in perpetuity when I bought them, totality unfairly since he'd done the square root of fuck all interesting since Jesus was a boy, him being one of those official 'guitar men' and of course the wogs incident. It's not unlike classic car mags sticking deathly dull MG's on the cover year after fucking year when they are greeting card prose to Lancia's Yates.

D

[eggwheat]

Didn’t Bowie do some bad racist stuff or did I dream that?