Kill All Drummers (Not Literally)

[Starship321]

I have a little two piece metal project called Highspeed Nosebleed and we are playing without a drummer.
All the drums are arranged using superior drummer and ableton - and that's also how we perform live.
It sure is different than playing with a real drummer, but not necessarily worse!
We can go as fast as we want, we can tour only by train, and we don't have to haul around big drum sets. That's pretty cool. The only downside is that we're always dependent on a decent PA system in venues. But all in all the drum computer and the fact that we don't look really metal at all really opens up a different audience than your average metal gig.



Also, songwriting is radically different than rehearsing the same part over and over in the band room.
Nowadays, I do it all on the computer for this band and it is MUCH quicker.

So I could just use my mac and go down that route?

What sort of equipment would I need?

I know nothing about drum machines or metal but I dig that thing on someone's head in the photo haha

[Starship321]

I know lots of musicians who can't keep in time with drum machines, strangely enough. It's much harder than you might think. Without a push/pull of live drums, people can be really out. Also, drummers often play in front of the beat making the music sound alive, but drum machines are on the beat which can sound slightly lethargic, not to mention more or less unable to speed up when you get excited.
Not to put you off, though; i like drum machines a lot and have played in many bands with them. Still miss an old 505 we used to have. {{{sigh}}}

We only really play one chord maybe two at a time all the way through

It sounds really stupid and maybe it is but we like it

The taped down keys, drone machine and just general weird drones/wah madness just make us happy (Aww)

[shadowplay]

They hate this of course, they want symbols all over the place and take up so much room!!!

Yeah, I hate it when drummers are really into semiotics! Saussure this, Charles Morris that, I mean, who cares, right? Shut up and play the fucking drums, man!

Double

But seriously...

I think that a drum machine could actually be a positive thing for a lot of 'guitar' bands, I can think of a bands that I started disliking the minute they got a 'real' drummer. Some folk think drum machines are 'cheesy' but I'd counter but saying a lot of rock drumming is tedious in the extreme and as you say awash with bloody cymbals and fills I can only assume they are playing out of boredom. (I suggest folk go look up the the Jaki Liebezeit monotonous quote).

One thing I would say is embrace the drum machine for what it is, I generally find drum machines trying to be drummers a bit of a bore, a bit of synthetik never did anyone any harm.

D

[noisepunk]

I have a little two piece metal project called Highspeed Nosebleed and we are playing without a drummer.
All the drums are arranged using superior drummer and ableton - and that's also how we perform live.
It sure is different than playing with a real drummer, but not necessarily worse!
We can go as fast as we want, we can tour only by train, and we don't have to haul around big drum sets. That's pretty cool. The only downside is that we're always dependent on a decent PA system in venues. But all in all the drum computer and the fact that we don't look really metal at all really opens up a different audience than your average metal gig.



Also, songwriting is radically different than rehearsing the same part over and over in the band room.
Nowadays, I do it all on the computer for this band and it is MUCH quicker.

So I could just use my mac and go down that route?

What sort of equipment would I need?

I know nothing about drum machines or metal but I dig that thing on someone's head in the photo haha

That's pretty much what we do- the only reason we use an iPod over a laptop is that it would be much easier to replace an iPod is something happened to it.

You would need a computer, obviously, and then some sort of sequencing software. Garageband would probably work fine, it's $6 (use to be free- so a used computer might come with it) and has a few drum machines, some meant to sound real some meant to sound like drum machines. From there, you could run straight from the headphone jack into the PA system or an amp, or through an external soundcard into the PA system or an amp.

Sequencing isn't hard at all once you get the hang of it. I don't have much experience outside of garageband and logic, but with those you have a grid where the X axis is keys on a piano (pitch for a melodic instrument, various samples- like a kick or snare- for a percussion instrument) and the Y axis is time in beats and measures. You place markers on the grid to indicate what will trigger and when and then the software reads the markers and interoperates them based on the instrument. Hope I explained that okay, youtube might do a better job

One other benefit to using software over a drum machine is that you can incorporate other sounds, like droning synths or sound-collage-y stuff, which is also something we do- it also means that if you every want to record, you'll already have most of the equipment to do so, and will only need some way of getting guitar tracks into the computer.

[Starship321]

That's pretty much what we do- the only reason we use an iPod over a laptop is that it would be much easier to replace an iPod is something happened to it.

You would need a computer, obviously, and then some sort of sequencing software. Garageband would probably work fine, it's $6 (use to be free- so a used computer might come with it) and has a few drum machines, some meant to sound real some meant to sound like drum machines. From there, you could run straight from the headphone jack into the PA system or an amp, or through an external soundcard into the PA system or an amp.

Sequencing isn't hard at all once you get the hang of it. I don't have much experience outside of garageband and logic, but with those you have a grid where the X axis is keys on a piano (pitch for a melodic instrument, various samples- like a kick or snare- for a percussion instrument) and the Y axis is time in beats and measures. You place markers on the grid to indicate what will trigger and when and then the software reads the markers and interoperates them based on the instrument. Hope I explained that okay, youtube might do a better job

One other benefit to using software over a drum machine is that you can incorporate other sounds, like droning synths or sound-collage-y stuff, which is also something we do- it also means that if you every want to record, you'll already have most of the equipment to do so, and will only need some way of getting guitar tracks into the computer.

I kind of get what you mean and I'll definitely look into it! Thank you for the explanation, it's really appreciated!

I really love Panda Bears setup in terms of sequencing ect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yvOYoNrzWM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[hoddyman]

Unless you compose the beats for each individual song you do, with all the fills and everything- and stick to the same arrangements every time you play the songs- drum machines can be very boring and limiting. There are drummers, mostly from the jazz, blues, and country music worlds, who do play simply on smallish kits, but they're often already very busy working, sometimes in more than one band. My band did very well for a few years with an African percussionist who did everything effectively with just a cajon and a high-hat. He also had a full trap set that we used with him on some recordings, and a big, loud, "battle of the bands" gig, but the hand percussion was mostly adequate in the small venues we usually played in. It was usually easy to balance the vocals and instruments with that set-up. It's good if you can find a drummer who can hear your music in terms of "songs", instead of it all just being a "beat workout".

[noisepunk]

Unless you compose the beats for each individual song you do, with all the fills and everything- and stick to the same arrangements every time you play the songs- drum machines can be very boring and limiting.

Limitation can be a good thing.

[noisepunk]

I kind of get what you mean and I'll definitely look into it! Thank you for the explanation, it's really appreciated!

I really love Panda Bears setup in terms of sequencing ect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yvOYoNrzWM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah, I can't see this sounding as good with a live drummer.

Also, no problem.

[InLimbo]

I know lots of musicians who can't keep in time with drum machines, strangely enough. It's much harder than you might think.

This is by far the only drawback of playing with some sort of programmed drum solution, whether it be a machine or laptop setup. I'm still not 100% comfortable playing with a click track (even harder than a drum machine in my mind because of the annoyance in sound). But, it takes a lot of practice and frustration. However, if I play with a live drummer, everything sort of settles and I kind find the groove much easier and more comfortably. The click tracks and drum machines are relentlessly unforgiving.

The part of limitation is a good thing - it drives creativity. But, you also need to consider that you're potentially removing another creative mind from the project as well.

[Starship321]

I know lots of musicians who can't keep in time with drum machines, strangely enough. It's much harder than you might think.

This is by far the only drawback of playing with some sort of programmed drum solution, whether it be a machine or laptop setup. I'm still not 100% comfortable playing with a click track (even harder than a drum machine in my mind because of the annoyance in sound). But, it takes a lot of practice and frustration. However, if I play with a live drummer, everything sort of settles and I kind find the groove much easier and more comfortably. The click tracks and drum machines are relentlessly unforgiving.

The part of limitation is a good thing - it drives creativity. But, you also need to consider that you're potentially removing another creative mind from the project as well.

I thought about this but it can only help improve us and help for when it comes to recording which makes it worth a try!

The drummer we have is our 3rd and is no different to what we've had before really, he's just got more symbols

We've decided to go with the drum machine

[Starship321]

Unless you compose the beats for each individual song you do, with all the fills and everything- and stick to the same arrangements every time you play the songs- drum machines can be very boring and limiting.

Limitation can be a good thing.

Minimal is what we're trying to achieve - The limitation can open many new doors

Limiting and boring is probably what some people might think of the drones/sounds after so long but we like doing it. I guess we don't just want to be a 'band' we're very much into light shows, projections and I guess the overall experience.

[Harrison]

I play with a guy that has two settings
1."ambient"
2.LOUD
and he leans towards option 2 most often. He's young and excited, but man it can be a chore playing along at times. I definitely get the desire for a drum machine, simple and solid beats that the music can move around, instead of strong arming the rest of the band into bombastic moments.

[veryredtomatoes]

I use a Korg Kaossilator (bought before Volca Beats was available). It has two loopers, short, 1 or 2 bars, and I use these to program drums on the fly. It plugs into the end of my chain on the Aux input of my RC-3, so if I want, I have a third looping option there. I like this solution as there's just a regular guitar chain, no laptop involved.

The other option I use, but more for recording with the laptop is Ableton Live. Here I use an Akai MPK Mini to trigger individual hits which can be played into looping clips or just by themselves. I also use a novation launchpad to control a drum sequencer that runs in tandem with the other drums. This works great to give me steady ultra repetitive hits, like hats that run through say almost an entire piece. Live is THE solution if you're going to perform and use a laptop.

I have always played with machines timing the track, and don't have any issues, live drummer vs drum machine. I just don't have this issue. On the other hand, I don't pay much attention to time, so mine is probably totally off.

[jorri]

my drummer won't let me use my fuzz pedals.

mine neither as i start plugging his bass drum into one.

its the story of most drummers, i've exactly the same problem. If you've got them to shut up between songs so you can talk you have accomplished the impossible for a start.

But some who have had played as a second instrument have actually been more minimal, if they know they are swapping to bash on a guitar and twiddle with pedals its usually more restrained. Or even if they can't play it triggering keyboards for ambient songs keeps them distracted. Sounds condescending but they can't play like buddy rich all the time, groove is in the beats that you purposefully miss.

I'd feel a midi setup with pedals could make a more interactive percussion if i had to use drum machines. Also loop samples, not just machine triggers it can all get pretty dynamic.

[Whiny Minotaur]

People should learn how to not play all over the track for the sake of it in general, really