Advice for Building a Mismatched Studio Drum Kit

[Professor Bill]

Snare and a cymbal walk into a bar…?

[seenoevil II]

Snare and a cymbal walk into a bar…?

B-bop dzzzzzzzzzz

[seenoevil II]

Hmm. As much as I had hoped to cherry pick just what I needed for this kit, I'm really running into a brick wall when it comes to kicks. 20" kicks are apparently some kind of unicorn that are somehow less common than 16" or 18" kicks. Those might sound appealing to someone like me on a space budget, but demos have revealed them to be capable of either open sounding jazz tones or completely deadened clicks kick sounds, and I've looking for exactly between those.

As much as I'd hate to be saddled with another cheap kit to store away, it's looking like the best route is to pick a kit that somebody is just trying to get rid of (kinda like me last year ). They often come with a load of hardware for free (maybe even some junky cymbals). There are folks trying to unload these for only a couple hundred bucks. Trouble is, they're pretty universally entry level kits. Although, from what I've gleaned, with non-snare drums, it really truly is about heads, tuning, and muffling rather than the shell. So, if it's got decent tuning hardware, then I'm in business.

Tell me, anyone who cares to answer, any thoughts on Tara Rockstar kits. It's seemingly this whole world, but are the more contemporary kits made in Taiwan still fit to purpose?

[Jonesie]

Anyone know any good jokes? Because that's all I could accompany right now. Next piece added!


Bearing surface looked preeeeetty clean. Rim isn't warped. Head spins freely on shell. Snare wires all present and accounted for. I think I did ok. Sub $200.

Looks like the strainer was upgraded on the snare. It's technically an upgrade from the stock one, but I've had that strainer loosen the snares while playing before too. Might want to put some plumbers tape around the screw shaft to keep it from moving. Although it may be totally fine too.

[seenoevil II]

Anyone know any good jokes? Because that's all I could accompany right now. Next piece added!


Bearing surface looked preeeeetty clean. Rim isn't warped. Head spins freely on shell. Snare wires all present and accounted for. I think I did ok. Sub $200.

Looks like the strainer was upgraded on the snare. It's technically an upgrade from the stock one, but I've had that strainer loosen the snares while playing before too. Might want to put some plumbers tape around the screw shaft to keep it from moving. Although it may be totally fine too.

Good eye! Yeah, unfortunately, I still don't even have a stare to put it on, so I haven't been able to play it long enough to find any foibles it might have.

[seenoevil II]

Small update on the whole endeavor.

I did wind up buying an entire kit from FB Markey place. Some guy was clearing out his late 90's Ludwig Rocker Elite five-piece with cymbals and hardware included for $250. He said, "it's all the original heads" as if that was some kind of marker of vintage purity. Anyway, the deeper I dig into this kit, the more I feel I was a little screwed over. Maybe not screwed, as I don't think the guy thought he was getting away with anything, but the state of the kit means I should have paid a little less. Definitely stored in a sub-optimal environment for a long time. Kinda pissed that there was no snare stand as the reason I went for the package deal was to avoid tracking down each piece of hardware individually.

Anyway, I've got a bunch of clamps on some delamination happening in the kick shell and a split in the kick hoop. The hardware is currently soaking in vinegar ahead of a DW40, tinfoil, and elbow grease party I have scheduled for tonight. Heads I need to decide on and order soon, and I STILL need to track down one (or ever better) two snare stands. Musicians Friend has a deal on one for $55. I know it well and it's a good stand. Maybe I'll just splurge.

I feel I may have messed up by cheaping out on these shells, but we'll see how well they clean up.

The cymbals aren't special. Serbian pro series crash and hi-hats, a weird shallow belled ride, an ancient stamped pearl (but just the bottom hi-hat). Weirdly, the one I'm most excited for is a Chad Smith (RHCP) signature 18"crash. I know it's not very expensive, but it's very light and bright, and I actually think it would make for an interesting jazz style ride.

On the upside, it's a maple/birch set with a nice lacquer finish. The hoops are a little lightweight, but they seem straight enough. Plus, I got a second snare drum in the deal. A 14"x6.5" thing. That's a handy thing to have a second tonal color available if the acrolite isn't cutting it at any point.

Maybe I'll snap a few pics along the way. I'm not sure it's that interesting at this point.

[seenoevil II]

The Misadventure Continues!

In an attempt to make this thread somewhat interesting and to share what I just spent all day doing with the void, I thought I share some pics and updates.

So, I thought today's laborious and tedious activity was going to be cleaning the hardware and shell of the 16" floor tom. It and the kick were not stored in cases and dust and the elements definitely left a mark. Don't get me wrong, I spent at good hour plus today scrubbing the pitted and rusty hoops, lugs, washers etc. etc. on this drum, only to discover...



It's like this the whole way around the resonant end..I don't know if the wood filler was applied by the clown I bought this thing form or the clowns at the ludwig factory. Probing with my palate knife reveals the opening to only be an inch at its deepest. I'm at a point where this thing seems destined for the curb. If I'm going to sell these shells to recoup some of my losses, I need to at least try to remedy this situation.



So, I noticed that the radius of a 16" diameter is 8", which is itself pretty close to 7.25", a very common fretboard radius I happen to have a radiuses block for. I stick some 80 grit to my block and went hog on a pine stud, making a very short lived "fingerboard". Kinda looks like a one piece fender neck.



The 7.25" radius is an even better fit once you consider it goes on the inside perimeter of the drum shell.


Then, the student becomes the master. I adhere some more 80 grit to the radiused clock that I just made in order to create a matching concave surface.



Then, I chopped up the log in the miter, added some cork to spread the load and prevent marring. I made about enough to do half the circumference at once. Though, I don't have enough clamps for that.



And here they are in action! I thinned some titebond, worked in the cracks with a palate knife and sinched these clamps down really hard (I use another clamp to close the lever on the first clamp once my hand strength is maxed out, a move I call "clampseption").

And....Drum roll please..... it didn't work. At least not well. The nature of the delamination and the softness of the birch filler plies mean that the whole structure has an almost foam like consistency. Even millimeters past the influence of the clamp, the seams open up again. This manifests as little puffed out gaps between where I have each arch caul. I'll see if can't glue and clamp those tomorrow with these tiny little c clamps I have, but I fear that the glue I worked in today will interfere with any future gluing attempts.

Man... I didn't sign up to be a drum repair man...especially a bad one! For this drum to ever be "right" it's gonna need to be cut down and the bearing surface rerouted.. on both sides of the drum.

I'm leaning towards just selling thing shell set on and keeping the hardware and crappy cymbals to get something for my lost money. It's a shame, because from what I understand, these shells were pretty decent in their heyday. But, they weren't what I was really looking for, and they have not panned out.

Would $100 be too much for these shells in this state? I've cleaned a lot of rust from the hardware. I don't want to pass along a scam.

Anyway. Thanks for witnessing my existence.

[seenoevil II]

I'm just so tired.

So I started hunting for a orphan kick as was my og plan. I went to every shop in my area. No luck. Although, one guy straight up gave me a no name 60s Taiwanese 3 piece kit for free. It was destined for the garbage and it shows.

So, I'm scrubbing more rust off more hardware, fussing about bearing surfaces and measuring for "roundness".

And I start to think. I've made a huge mistake and it's time to go back to drum machines.

There's just too many things going on. A million variables to keep track of. Way more than guitar. This is all assuming I can play or record these things competently...

Here's a crazy thought: real snare, electronic kick?
Is that a thing? Would latency be too much? I can focus on keeping one (small) drum in working order, then just use the samples of the amazing drums i can never afford in Logic. Use a pad and beater pedal to trigger it
Who listens to the kick anyway?

Idk.... this has become a log of my discent into madness.

[redchapterjubilee]

Been through my share of out-of-round drums, bad edges, bubbled finishes, rusted chrome, delamination, etc. I feel your pain. That's one of the joys of buying used drums. People are sometimes REALLY mean to them. I've seen the same with amps that lived in barns, guitars stuck in a damp basement, etc. Long story short, people that didn't take care of their instruments. The cheaper the drums, and sometimes the older the drums, the less likely they were built to withstand turning into artifacts. Thinner shells, softer woods, pot metal, etc. I have a good set of 70s Ludwigs that live in the band garage and I really want to put something cheaper and less fussy in there instead. I've been meaning to bring the Ludwigs home to deal with some rust on the hoops for a while now.

[seenoevil II]

Well, after 2.5 years, I once again have the ability to profoundly annoy my neighbors!

I finally picked up a snare stand today off of FB market place, and a my kick heads arrived in the mail, so I was able to set the thing up for the first time and jam out. I'm happy to report that the groove is still there, but the flesh is spongey and bruised. I stopped before blisters formed.

So yeah, that's Trash Kick (tm) with a fresh Remo coated ambassador on it.



All the hardware is oiler than a machine gun right now. I spent a lot of time on the bearing edges. First filling gashes with wood fill, then leveling the repairs with the same methodology as fret work, then sealing the areas up with CA glue. Then I ran some 230 grit over the whole thing with light pressure. Finally I went around the whole surface with paste finishing wax, and then burnished it all with a candle stick. I have no idea if any of that is the right move, but my intuition is that this is acceptable work (at least for a free garbage kit). The irony is that the bearing edge that was chewed up is now in better shape than the batter side that was protected. It got the sanding and wax treatments.

It appears to be a mahogany shell with rounded bearing edged and a 16" depth. Paired with the coated ambassador, this is going to be a very "open" kick. With the muffling shown it's got Bonham vibes, which is OK with me as I wanted Steven Drozd with Dave Friedman vibes. I'd put the Reso head on (unported btw), but I'm waiting on some replacement tension rods to arrive. Anxious hear how the the thing sounds under mic. I'm hopeful because, one, I put a tonne of work into this thing, and two, because how cool a story is it to have a vintage kick that was gonna be thrown out as my main kick.

Lastly, notice the "spurs" I bodged in there. Literally just an inanimate aluminum rod that I chopped in half. Works fine.

There's still so much work ahead of me. My body aches thinking of all the WD-40 scrubbing I still need to do with all of the hardware. Then, once the tension rods arrive, I need to compare this Trash Kick (tm) with the Ludwig rocker elite one I already bought and repaired to see if it's better/ worth keeping. If it's not magical, I'm selling the Ludwig shells. Try and claw back some cash and get "paid" for my hours of fruitless restoration work. I haven't even looked at the two Trash Toms (tm) yet.

Impressions:

Acrolite? Chef's kiss. Sounds so good! Especially with a damping ring oround the head. So clean. So dry.

The cymbal situation is decent. That Sabian ride I bought is pretty ok. As predicted, the Chad Smith crash is an interesting character in this lot. The Sabian pro hi-hats are way too crispy on their own, but I threw on that patina'd old Pearl bottom hat and it did wonders to make a borderline usable tone. Maybe that's an old trick I don't know, mismatched hats for budget tonez.

But yeah, as of today, I could do some tracking with this kit. And that was the whole goal. I'll add updates if they seem worth while.

[TagoMago]

That doesn't look too much different to my 'go-to' drum recording setup.
Cheap kick (a dumpster save) / Ludwig Acrolite / late 70s Paiste 505 hi-hats / Paiste 602 crash ride.
Doesn't look all fancy-ass but it records great.
I'd rock your setup, no doubt about it.

[marqueemoon]

Good stuff. Minimalist drums FTW.

[seenoevil II]

That doesn't look too much different to my 'go-to' drum recording setup.
Cheap kick (a dumpster save) / Ludwig Acrolite / late 70s Paiste 505 hi-hats / Paiste 602 crash ride.
Doesn't look all fancy-ass but it records great.
I'd rock your setup, no doubt about it.

That looks so cool! Yeah, cymbals are next. I have some good/fine stuff now, but I know I can do better.

Do you single mic it to record as shown? Do you have any clips of that effect?

And unfortunately, I'm still in kick drum hell. The new tension rods I bought are too snug for the lug nuts in this kick. I did however install a felt strip and effect is really cool.

I'm gonna do and jamming later today as my drumming specific muscles need shaping up.

[TagoMago]

Ah that's such a pain when stuff doesn't match up But it looks like those bass drum T-rods are from a vintage (possibly USA) set and the bass drum itself is Asian. Those two things rarely match up because the threads on vintage USA hardware rarely seem to be compatible with modern Asian stuff. I'd bet money on the cheap packs of 10 T-rods and claws on, say, Thomann's site being a dead-on fit.

Do you single mic it to record as shown? Do you have any clips of that effect?

Yeah, I usually single mic the kit, depending on what I'm recording. In the past I'd just put a mic over my right shoulder aiming sort of in between the kick and snare and get a result like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX-2wpT23QM But nowadays if I'm doing my own stuff I'll often do things like plug a battery powered electret mic into an MXR Dyna Comp, then into a cheap plastic Danelectro reverb pedal, then straight into a 4-track cassette portastudio. And end up with things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqvxitD-X0M which sounds cavernous, despite me playing with brushes fairly softly. The compressor did all the work on that one. It's totally the wrong way to do things but I just liked the 'Can-on-steroids' vibe that the MXR gives you.

This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR5y1A1J5Ik is a similar vibe but I plugged the mic straight into a EH phaser, then into a Mooer Shimverb, then into an 8-track. Again, I'm not hitting them hard, just overloading the tape to get the most out of them..

But when I do drums for other folks records, I'll try and get it as hi-fi as I possibly can by using a second mic, often round the beater side of the kick, and combine it with an overhead. And I'll use my best mics, instead of the crappy plastic tat I save for my own recordings. I did a remix for a hip hop outfit signed to Heavenly earlier this year and used two mics for that, even though I played like a caveman: https://revivalseason.bandcamp.com/album/chop and the instrumental of that is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia4JV9SsYKE

I also do the felt strip, and sometimes stuff a Mexican blanket in the kick too, depending on the track. Felt strip = old school goodness!

If I can be any more help, please just give me a shout, I'm happy to try and help you wherever possible.

[seenoevil II]

Ah that's such a pain when stuff doesn't match up But it looks like those bass drum T-rods are from a vintage (possibly USA) set and the bass drum itself is Asian. Those two things rarely match up because the threads on vintage USA hardware rarely seem to be compatible with modern Asian stuff. I'd bet money on the cheap packs of 10 T-rods and claws on, say, Thomann's site being a dead-on fit.

Do you single mic it to record as shown? Do you have any clips of that effect?

Yeah, I usually single mic the kit, depending on what I'm recording. In the past I'd just put a mic over my right shoulder aiming sort of in between the kick and snare and get a result like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX-2wpT23QM But nowadays if I'm doing my own stuff I'll often do things like plug a battery powered electret mic into an MXR Dyna Comp, then into a cheap plastic Danelectro reverb pedal, then straight into a 4-track cassette portastudio. And end up with things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqvxitD-X0M which sounds cavernous, despite me playing with brushes fairly softly. The compressor did all the work on that one. It's totally the wrong way to do things but I just liked the 'Can-on-steroids' vibe that the MXR gives you.

This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR5y1A1J5Ik is a similar vibe but I plugged the mic straight into a EH phaser, then into a Mooer Shimverb, then into an 8-track. Again, I'm not hitting them hard, just overloading the tape to get the most out of them..

But when I do drums for other folks records, I'll try and get it as hi-fi as I possibly can by using a second mic, often round the beater side of the kick, and combine it with an overhead. And I'll use my best mics, instead of the crappy plastic tat I save for my own recordings. I did a remix for a hip hop outfit signed to Heavenly earlier this year and used two mics for that, even though I played like a caveman: https://revivalseason.bandcamp.com/album/chop and the instrumental of that is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ia4JV9SsYKE

I also do the felt strip, and sometimes stuff a Mexican blanket in the kick too, depending on the track. Felt strip = old school goodness!

If I can be any more help, please just give me a shout, I'm happy to try and help you wherever possible.

This is all fantastic! Both in terms of being informative, and also sounding great! That one has a definite "Turnstile Blues" vibe to it.

Yeah, I did a shootout between the 2 kicks I currently own Trash Kick (tm) and Ludwig. And a Reso side large diaphragm on the kick (no Reso) and a single pencil overhead pointed down, and I was shocked by the punch and fullness of the picture.

These tracks are such valuable intel for me. I don't have huge experience recording drums and they are clearly very intimidating to get "right". It's good to hear such tasty results done with so little.

Now when you say your "best" mics. Are we talking like $10,000 Neumans? Because I'm rocking a set of MXLs (one just up and died unexpectedly recording the aforementioned shootout).

Also, the closer I look, the more i think we have the same kick