Your opinions about this 1963 Jaguar?

[Reiska]

Hi!

I entered the realm of offset guitars last year by purchasing a refinished 1963 Jazzmaster. The vintage offset guitar enthusiasm hasn't let go, so now I am looking for a good 60s Fender Jaguar.

I have been looking at the ad of this guitar for weeks:
https://reverb.com/item/13108089-fender ... 3-sunburst

The body of the guitar is worn in such a perfect way, but I feel the price might be too steep e.g. considering the split in the body wood. Also I don't know if I share the opinion of the ad that the frets do not need refret.

I have not contacted the seller yet, but I would like your opinions about the price - it is a bit more than I can pay, but do you think that the asking price is realistic?

Also I am a bit worried that the guitar is not as original as represented, since the tuners do not seem period correct. Shouldn't they be so called "single line Kluson Deluxes" with text Kluson deluxe on them?

Also the tremolo unit top plate looks much less worn than the other metal parts, which I find a bit suspect.

There is bit of a mismatch with the guitar peghead as well - it doesn't match the level of wear to the body and the natural darkening of wood (or laquer) feels a bit uneven, I have seen a couple of refinished pegheads where color of the the peghead is quite light at the center and darker towards edges. It leads me to think if the peghead would have been refinished at some point?

Thank you for your opinions in advance!

[gringopig]

I don't think it would be a good purchase. It's too expensive for what it is and the cost of work on the frets on top makes it a poor buy. If those are original frets then a fret dress just won't fix it as the frets were pretty small to begin with so factor in the price of a good refret. The Staytrem is £30 and a decent addition but no original case or mute or bridge cover....

As for the tuners:
1962 Jaguar (single line Kluson)


1965 Jaguar (single line Kluson)


another (double line Kluson 65->)


and a 64 Jazzmaster


So that one having no markings are likely to be repros. Bide your time and find a better one. They aren't rare and you can get a great condition Jag for the same money with original case, mute and in much better condition for the same price.

I don't like the look of that split and they don't mention the split on the treble side top bout either!

Guitarvillage have got an Olympic white '63 in for not much more and massively more desirable

https://reverb.com/item/23816613-fender ... mpic-white

[Reiska]

Thank you gringopig, that was very good information. I greatly appreciate your effort, taking time to look at the ad and post the tuner reference pictures.

I live in Scandinavia and so far haven't seen any 60s Fender Jaguars for sale locally, so I have no good price reference points. But your advice sounds wise - all in all, this 1963 in question seems not worth the price.

[Paul-T]

gringopig is right, good spot on that second crack. Those cracks would bother any owner, long term, and you can't really fix them without messing the finish. I think someone has purposely bashed that guitar at some point , and the price just doesn't reflect its issues.

The white guitar has the original blonde case, and those can fetch a lot of money, certainly £300-plus, too.

[marqueemoon]

I would pass due to the crack for sure. Too much money for a guitar in that state.

[gringopig]

Here's one that is all original to my eye and about the same price!
A refret but that may a bonus depending on how well it's done.

In the UK too.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pre-CBS-Fend ... SwOnJbu3~t

and another!

https://reverb.com/item/22138936-fender ... burst-1965

[Reiska]

gringopig is right, good spot on that second crack. Those cracks would bother any owner, long term, and you can't really fix them without messing the finish. I think someone has purposely bashed that guitar at some point , and the price just doesn't reflect its issues.

The white guitar has the original blonde case, and those can fetch a lot of money, certainly £300-plus, too.

Thank you Paul-T, good point about those cracks - fixing them would cause further problems with the finish. What do you guys think - what would be a reasonable price range for the cracked 1963 guitar considering the issues mentioned?

Gringopig & Paul-T - yes that white jaguar in the link seems absolutely amazing. But unfortunately it is about a thousand euros out of my league budget-wise. At the moment I think I could do about four thousand (in euros, including shipping costs to Finland & cites documentation) quite comfortably, maybe a few hundred above that with a stretch.

I am also not very familiar with reverb.com pricing - in some occasions I have seen mentioned that the asking prices in reverb.com are a bit inflated to take into account/compensate the fact that the buyers tend to make offers and try to negoatiate the price. Is it expectable that buyers will drop some of the price if I would make an offer?

[gringopig]

The '63 on ebay has come down from a totally unrealistic £6k GBP to a more realistic price but they are open to offers so you lose nothing. You can make offers to the seller no problem - they are used to it. Finland is in the EU so no CITES from the UK required.
I have a hunch that Guitarvillage won't budge on their price though as they are a retail outlet but, again, where's the harm in asking? It's been for sale for some time now and maybe they want rid of it and got it as a trade in.

Whatever happens, good luck in your search and don't rush. They are out there and it's a buyers market.

[Paul-T]

What do you guys think - what would be a reasonable price range for the cracked 1963 guitar considering the issues mentioned?

Gringopig & Paul-T - yes that white jaguar in the link seems absolutely amazing. But unfortunately it is about a thousand euros out of my league budget-wise. At the moment I think I could do about four thousand (in euros, including shipping costs to Finland & cites documentation) quite comfortably, maybe a few hundred above that with a stretch.

Personally I wouldn't touch it that cracked guitar, I don't think any saving would make it worthwhile, it would bother me more than a refin personally.

I often see Reverb instruments priced at 20% over true value, I'd have no hesitation in offering 12.5% less, especially if you offer to pay with a card rather than Paypal, which will cost them at least 2% extra.

Definitely worthinvestigating UK guitars at the moment as our economy and currency goes down the toilet! Good luck.

[FrankRay]

I've noticed recently that sellers are trying to pitch sunbursts around the same price as custom colours, and even refins at about the same price. Way too much. A sunburst until recently should be around 2k, and a custom colour twice that.
You should still be able to pick one up for less than 2.8K or so. Also those cracks really worry me. Not worth it. Looks good though!

[i love sharin foo]

That ‘63 has taken quite a hit to the strap button. Check out how far it is pushed into the body. No wonder it cracked so badly!! In all these years, I have never seen one hit that hard

[Mechanical Birds]

$5,000 for that guitar is insane. You could spend less than half of that and get one that is at the very least structurally sound. Hard pass my man.

[Mechanical Birds]

Thank you gringopig, that was very good information. I greatly appreciate your effort, taking time to look at the ad and post the tuner reference pictures.

I live in Scandinavia and so far haven't seen any 60s Fender Jaguars for sale locally, so I have no good price reference points. But your advice sounds wise - all in all, this 1963 in question seems not worth the price.

Does the CITES stuff matter between European countries? Like is it still prohibitively expensive/logistically hard to have one shipped from Germany or Spain or France or whatever?

[Paul-T]

(Edit: was wrong? My bad)

If the UK leaves, it might be a problem but we won't be worrying about buying guitars as we'll be sleeping in caves and eating rats.

[Reiska]

Thank you gringopig, that was very good information. I greatly appreciate your effort, taking time to look at the ad and post the tuner reference pictures.

I live in Scandinavia and so far haven't seen any 60s Fender Jaguars for sale locally, so I have no good price reference points. But your advice sounds wise - all in all, this 1963 in question seems not worth the price.

Does the CITES stuff matter between European countries? Like is it still prohibitively expensive/logistically hard to have one shipped from Germany or Spain or France or whatever?

Hi Mechanical birds!

The answer is: it depends of the circumstances I contacted authorities in my country (Finland) a lot beforehand and asked for instructions, because in 60s jaguars the fretboard material is rosewood and the trade of rosewood is regulated. The matter is a bit complicated because most of the rosewood (dalbergia) species fall in the category under CITES appendix II/B. For those species listed in appendix II/B no extra documentation for trade betweed EU countries is needed. For trade outside EU you need CITES export and import permits before shipping.

BUT! - as it happens, the fretboard of the 60s Jaguars (and many other this era Fender guitars) is not just any kind of rosewood but Brazilian rosewood (Dalbergia nigra) that falls under CITES appendix A and is therefore under strict regulation. For Brazilian rosewood you need also import and export permits for trade between EU countries.

According to the instructions I received, the seller must first get an export permit from his/her country and send a copy of it to the buyer. Upon presenting the copy of the export permit from the seller to the authorities, the buyer can apply for an import permit from his/her country. Only after getting these two permits the guitar can be shipped. I was also informed that without proper documentation the custom officials may seize the guitar (which would be a very lamentable end for the process).

In Finland the import permit that is required from the buyer costs 80 euros, I have no knowledge of the cost of the export permit.