Vintage or custom shop?

[gringopig]

I put this question to you all:
I am looking to buy a Fender Jaguar due to an unhealthy obsession with Kurt Vile and have been looking tentatively at the market for vintage Jaguars.
It's so difficult.
I am wary about vintage as originality may be in question and prices, although not in the same league as S & T's, are still significant.

So, for those of you with direct experience of an original 1962-66 guitar, those with a recent custom shop and (ideally) those with BOTH:
What would you buy?

Is there any real advantage or factor in a vintage example that a custom shop cannot reproduce?
Did the vintage disappoint? Was there some realisation that 'vintage' is just a trophy term perhaps?

I have 2 custom shop guitars: a blue flower Tele thinline and a 60th anniversary 1954 Strat and both are excellent - resonant and toneful.
I have only ever played a 1953 Tele and a '65 Strat and I would not have paid more than custom shop prices for them personally.
Thoughts?

[Paul-T]

I own a 62 Jazzmaster, a Custom Shop Mary Kaye and a 52 Blackguard.

I plan to sell the Tele in the next few years and replace with a Custom Shop Tele (because nipper's uni fees). It's an easy transaction for me as the price differential is so huge, but the Custom Shop Strat for me does have the right feel. It's 90 per cent of an original - a good original. And as we know there are lots of dodgy originals. The Mary Kaye just feels right, has the solidity etc of the original, and doesn't feel like a compromise (even though I don't like Strats as mach as Jazzmasters or Teles, so I plan to sell/swap if for the blackguard Custom Shop).
My jazzmaster is a refin, and overall I'd marginally prefer a good refin to a Custom Shop; but are there any good refins around any more? so many of the ones I see are suspicious.

THey've gone up in price a bit, but for a long time Ive thought that $2k for a Custom Shop guitar is a real bargain. What other handmade artefact can you getat that price, with that amount of craft, which will pretty much keep its value for ever? I have played a lot of originals, owned other vintage (59 Melody Maker, 64 Chet Atkins) for decades, and the Custom Shop feels essentially on the same level. My Tele is absolutely fantastic, it feels great, has the top and the bottom but it's really that last 5 or 10% that makes the difference, it's not a totally different world to the Custom Shop. If you think the the 50 years of heritage etc that has gone into Custom Shop guitars they are wonderful things, well worth the money.

Edit: I should add that when I worked for a Guitar Mag a few years back we did lots of comparisons of old vs new. For instance we every variant ot Tele and Esquire from 51 to 60 or so; they were all different, and all really significantly better than the current vintage reissue. There was no comparison at all. It's when you get to the Custom Shop instruments they get closer.

But you have that vintage Duo Sonic dont you? How's that feel?

[gringopig]

Thanks!
Yes, it's a tough one. I know how good the Custom Shop can be and you have no doubts about the history or originality.
The only thing that makes me want a vintage is the 'owning a real pre-CBS fender' thing which would rapidly wear off if it was a duffer. I can't access them to try out, that's the problem.

After all, they put a lot of effort into those custom shop instruments and the Fender factory was pumping them out in the '60's...
I'm going to sit on it and not rush in and absorb info from those who know more. Reverb is bookmarked!

Thanks again!

[sookwinder]

I have 5 Jags:
- 1999 American vintage
- 3 x 1966
- partscaster: 66 neck (dots and binding) , 62 body, march 64 black bobbin pickups & electrics, 64 mustang white kluson tuners (just cause I like them)

While I do not have or have not even played a custom shop Jaguar, the 1999 AV Jaguar is an awesome instrument... almost every time we record with it it brings out something that we were not expecting. If it was my only Jaguar I would be a very satisfied OSGer.
The 3x 66 jaguars are all great guitars , all slightly different, all feel great to play.

But there is something about the partcaster jaguar that rises above all of them. It is like an old pair of jeans or shoes you have just worn in perfectly, a month before they fall apart. The black bobbin pickups have an earthiness about them that is not there on the grey bobbin PUPs in the 66 jags (don't get me wrong the 66 jags are also awesome but have a more rock sound to my ears).

If there was a fire I'd grab the partscaster vintage Jaguar first.

[gringopig]

Interesting! The more I read about owners of the originals and other variants experience with their instruments, the more I get a sense that it is the guitar not the year, or the condition that makes it special. I've never heard anyone like a guitar primarily because it is in 9.9/10 condition.

I take it black bobbin guitars give way to the grey around the time of the CBS changeover?

I personally love the look of the dot neck bound late '65 necks. I remember Ry Cooder played a blue Startocaster with the bound neck and it looked very cool.

[sookwinder]

Grey bobbins come in at about May 1964.

[i love sharin foo]

I have 3 Jaguars at the present: a '65 and 2 '64s. I have owned an earlier AVRI, a '66, and a '94 MIJ LE blonde/ gold one. My only Custom Shop experience was with a Bass VI. Every one of the Jags has sounded great. I've spent a lot of years learning how to set them all up. Some take more work than others. But once that is equalized, there definitely wasn't one that didn't do all that a really good Jaguar should. I did add Duncan Vintage pickups to the MIJ. So, if sound is the number one thing here, I don't think you would go wrong with any of them. I have also found vintage Jaguars to be more consistent than vintage Jazzmasters in my limited sampling. Looking at it from the "total package" perspective, vintage all the way. I just love the look, the feel, the history, etc that you get with an old one. I like the think about where they've been, who's played them, and all the stories they have to tell. Resale is always a consideration to keep in mind also. You will NORMALLY do better with vintage than new, especially Custom Shop.

For someone new to Jaguars, I would more recommend something like one of those newer lacquer Classic Jags used. To be perfectly honest, Jags aren't for everyone. It might be better to test the waters at the lower end of the buy-in before you drop $3-5000+ on a vintage one (depending on year and color). If it suits you, you could always resell it and trade up to an old one. I started with Jazzmasters but after I got my first Jaguar, I slowly transitioned to Jags being my most used. I went from 4 '60s Jazzmasters and one '66 Jaguar, to 3 '60s Jaguars and one '64 Jazzmaster. I didn't plan on it. It just happened on it's own out of some subconscious realization that I was more myself with a Jaguar in my hands.

[windmill]

Once the vintage gas bug bites it doesn't go away.

The only cure is to buy a vintage piece.

Do your research, play as many as you can and buy from a reputable source.

Then if you are unhappy with it you can sell it and buy a custom shop version.

its the only way.

You don't want to die wondering.

HTH

[bencrit]

Buy vintage. Jags are still relatively cheap, And will likely go up in value in the future.

Custom shop models are really not all that different in price. You can still find pretty clean vintage sunburst jags for 3000-3500.

As far as originality is concerned, there’s plenty of examples out there that one can confidently say are unmolested.

My advice is to buy an earlier one with flat pole pieces on the pick ups. Much better sound than the later version.

It will play and sound better, and will also be a much better investment for your money

[cmd2kx]

I was recently hit with the vintage bug. Despite having an amazing custom shop jazzmaster - the sound and more so the feel of my vintage mustang, duo sonic, jazz and jag surpasses it. Also value will only increase.

Since you already have CS guitars, I would highly recommend a vintage jaguar. They are still somewhat reasonably priced !

[Mechanical Birds]

The custom shop guitars are built at every step to be the best versions of these guitars that they can be, but they’re still imitating the old, original guitars. It’s been said already that there are duds out there, which is something I don’t think you could say about the custom shop, but at the same time I don’t see the point in paying a comparable price for something that’s still just doing its best impression of something else.

The only custom shop job I’ve ever seen and gone completely nuts over is that poster (I can’t remember who it was!) with the dark Sherwood ‘66 Jag with the tort guard. That guitar is totally incredible and probably worth whatever he paid. Unless ES that thing, I say go for the source material and get a “real” one.

[Enzo]

I agree with everyone saying that the price difference between the two is negligible. You can either own the real deal piece of history, or a good imitation for about the same price.

If money is really an issue, go with a vintage refin. You can find lots of refinished vintage jaguars and jazzmasters that are 100% original except the paint on the body, and that minor modification cuts their value in half, making them unbelievably affordable! Best thing is they sound just as good and play just as well with the aftermarket paint.

I recently picked up a 1963 jazzmaster that was 100% original and unmolested, with the exception of a refinished body and worn decal, for $2000 even. Best sounding guitar I ever played, for cheaper than a custom shop, and it’s the real deal.

[cmd2kx]

I recently picked up a 1963 jazzmaster that was 100% original and unmolested, with the exception of a refinished body and worn decal, for $2000 even. Best sounding guitar I ever played, for cheaper than a custom shop, and it’s the real deal.

I had the same experience and paid $2k as well ! Mine is a 64. All original except for refin on the body, and possibly the back of neck. It is my best guitar!

[Arthon]

I am not with the consensus on this question. I find Custom Shop more consistent in terms of quality. For the money, I would go CS except if you can try the vintage guitar and look inside it.

I always had a good experience with CS guitars; I cannot say the same thing with vintage guitars.

[gringopig]

Thanks folks, really appreciate it and a lot of great opinions. I love the Fender Custom Shop products but the bug has bitten really deeply and I have my eye on something quite nice! Should I get it, I will post all the details.

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