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'66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:22 pm
by minimumnishe
https://reverb.com/item/16854843
This guitar has me a little confused. Obviously one should always be wary of custom color blacks as they're the easiest to refin, but this one stands out in an interesting way.
Binding and dots w/ big headstock and bold logo.
Unless I am completely mistaken, shouldn't offsets have gone to big headstocks in '67? And shouldn't they have received binding and
blocks before this?
I'm not saying the seller is trying to rip anyone off here, but this one just looks a little too wierd for me. Thoughts?
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:59 pm
by sunburster
I think that may be a '65 or '66 Stratocaster neck that was used for a JM (at the factory, by Fender). I've seen other factory examples of this. They made some of these D&B necks for Strats but decided to use them on JMs instead. A picture of the neck date stamp would confirm/deny this. But I think that's the only way you could explain a D&B neck with the larger headstock on a JM.
However, I think the larger JM logo decal only started in mid '67? So maybe the guitar was put together around then for a custom color order, with some leftover '66 parts (such as the neck). Either that or someone replaced the decal later on.
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:48 pm
by N0_Camping4U
Is it possible? yeah... would I risk 13k on it, nah.
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:42 pm
by bencrit
Thus guitar was at Gruhns. I tried to buy it (they sold it for 8k). This fellow beat me to it...
The logo is right for 66. I have a CAR just like this and it has the same logo.
What particularly is the doubt here...it looks right to me...
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:09 pm
by zip73
D&B neck, CBS headstock, double-line klusons and gold block script logo sans registered mark are all correct for an early ‘66.
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:01 pm
by kracdown
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:14 pm
by zhivago
The guitar looks straight to me...and it sports the large all-gold logo, which is pretty cool!
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:40 am
by s_mcsleazy
real or not. i'd rock it.
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:01 am
by bterry
$13k is ridiculous for a ‘66, black wasn’t that uncommon after ‘65...
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:15 pm
by sunburster
zip73 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:09 pm
D&B neck,
CBS headstock, double-line klusons and gold block script logo sans registered mark are all correct for an early ‘66.
Every site I check says they didn't make the larger headstock on JMs until mid-'67. I didn't know this logo was used in early '66. That would clear things up.
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:06 pm
by minimumnishe
sunburster wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:15 pm
zip73 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:09 pm
D&B neck,
CBS headstock, double-line klusons and gold block script logo sans registered mark are all correct for an early ‘66.
Every site I check says they didn't make the larger headstock on JMs until mid-'67. I didn't know this logo was used in early '66. That would clear things up.
Yeah, see that's what I was confused about. I thought that big headstocks and blocky logo came AFTER blocks were added.
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:09 pm
by zip73
sunburster wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:15 pm
zip73 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:09 pm
D&B neck,
CBS headstock, double-line klusons and gold block script logo sans registered mark are all correct for an early ‘66.
Every site I check says they didn't make the larger headstock on JMs until mid-'67. I didn't know this logo was used in early '66. That would clear things up.
Lots of misinformation out there with regards to the variety of transition-era headstock shape and logo design combinations. Note that all of these are d&b, all have klusons and all have the block script without the registered "R" symbol over Fender (that started around late '67/early '68 and went through the end of the 70's).
OCT '65 small headstock:
NOV '65 small headstock:
FEB '66 CBS headstock:
'66 CBS headstock w/gold logo
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:31 pm
by zepset
Everybody wanted that one. Looks pretty solid to me.
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:34 pm
by minimumnishe
zip73 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:09 pm
sunburster wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:15 pm
zip73 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:09 pm
D&B neck,
CBS headstock, double-line klusons and gold block script logo sans registered mark are all correct for an early ‘66.
Every site I check says they didn't make the larger headstock on JMs until mid-'67. I didn't know this logo was used in early '66. That would clear things up.
Lots of misinformation out there with regards to the variety of transition-era headstock shape and logo design combinations. Note that all of these are d&b, all have klusons and all have the block script without the registered "R" symbol over Fender (that started around late '67/early '68 and went through the end of the 70's).
OCT '65 small headstock:
NOV '65 small headstock:
FEB '66 CBS headstock:
'66 CBS headstock w/gold logo
I don't think I've ever seen the block logo with the small headstock before! Interesting...
Re: '66 "Factory" Black JM on Reverb
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:50 pm
by bencrit
Yes, those pictures should clear up any confusion. The web has a lot of useful info on guitars. When dealing with transitional Jazzmaster models, that's one place to be a little skeptical about what you might read in terms of hard and fast rules. These haven't really been that collectible until recently. The information on Strats and Teles is pretty accurate because they have been so desirable for so long. Lots of careful research has been put into it. But with offsets that is not true. Hopefully that will change.