Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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Johnny
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Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Johnny » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:20 am

Hi everyone,

Greetings! This is my first post in the forum (after browsing for about a year) and wish everyone all is well. I have been an offset lover especially for Jazzmasters for a couple of years. I owned a customshop 64’ surf blue JM reissue in college and loved it more than anything else. But as time passes and I have gotten a job along with a little bit of saving in my bank account, I said to myself “why not get a real thing?”

This is when I stumbled into this 64’ Fiesta Red JM. The seller on reverb claims that it is all original except for a refret, asking for about $10,000. I was way too excited to ask for any professional opinions before I settle the payment. Now I have received it, I began to question the originality of its finish -- 1. The finish feels almost a bit too new and gloss for a guitar at this age. There are weather checking across the body but the surface of the finish is not perfectly smooth as there are very subtle digs. 2. The level of aging of the finish (both the body and the front of the headstock) does not seem to match the aging of the back of the neck, especially the back of the headstock. 3. Are the other parts original?

I have attached pictures I took along with a few pictures from the seller. Let me know what you guys think. Any opinion is appreciated!

Best,
Johnny

Here are the pictures from the seller:
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Here are the pictures I took:
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B
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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by B » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:32 am

Impossible to say. Also impossible to get anything but guesses from an online forum.

For that kind of money, I would be taking it to a specialist who can do a hands on evaluation, blacklight it, etc.

That said, what a total dream machine! :?

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by andrewaward » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:53 am

Do you have a pic of the body neck pocket?

That guitar has had some work done to it.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by eggwheat » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:00 am

Certainly looks wrong to me..I’ve owned quite a few fiesta red jags/jazzmaster originals.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by andrewaward » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:01 am

Actually I can see on one of the pics a bit of the neck pocket......it looks like there is no stick mark...………...if that's the case and the body neck pocket it filled with paint then its a refin.

Must admit, it doesn't look right. The complete wire harness has been out...…….the brass shielding looks like its been in and out of a few guitars, the neck finish doesn't look right ………..have you a link to the Reverb ad?

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Johnny » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:20 am

andrewaward wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:01 am
Actually I can see on one of the pics a bit of the neck pocket......it looks like there is no stick mark...………...if that's the case and the body neck pocket it filled with paint then its a refin.

Must admit, it doesn't look right. The complete wire harness has been out...…….the brass shielding looks like its been in and out of a few guitars, the neck finish doesn't look right ………..have you a link to the Reverb ad?
Thanks for your reply. I’ll take the neck off and takes some pictures when I get back as well as sending you the reverb link.

If it is a refin, given the general condition of it, what do you think it is worth?

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Paul-T » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:44 am

The checking looks good... but I'm very very worried by what looks like paint over dings and paint over what looks like rough sanding-marks on the headstock. It's difficult to be certain from photos, if it's paint settled into the grain then fine, but that aspect in particular concerns me. Also the wear on the back of the headstock, plus ageing of some of the parts, seems inconsistent with a much cleaner body.

I don't know enough about Fiesta Red to say whether the lack of fading compared to under the scratchplate is a tell-tale, I know Fiesta Red isn't that light-fugitive, so perhaps that's irrelevant. But look at the discolouration of the back of the headstock varnish... how come the paint is, in comparison, so clean?

personally I think Custom Colours are a world of pain, that's why I'd look for a Sunburst if I wanted an original finish!
Last edited by Paul-T on Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by kapepper » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:53 am

Looks like a refin. Neck and back of headstock looks to belong to a well used and played guitar but the finish doesn’t show almost any wear

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by eggwheat » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:39 am

Johnny wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:20 am
If it is a refin, given the general condition of it, what do you think it is worth?
$3-4K ?

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by eggwheat » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:40 am

kapepper wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:53 am
Looks like a refin. Neck and back of headstock looks to belong to a well used and played guitar but the finish doesn’t show almost any wear

Yeh..no way the body would look like that compared to the neck!

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by mbene085 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:10 am

Agreed regarding paint over dings, mismatch of paint wear vs the back of the neck, and you absolutely can see enough of the neck pocket to see that there's no paint stick mark.

The refin may be old, but it's a refin.

Interestingly, the mint guard looks legit which suggests that this was originally a custom colour to begin with. Maybe even fiesta red.

My personal opinion is that refins need to sell for 30% less than an original sunburst...because if they don't, then people will keep refinishing sunbursts for the money.

I would return it. It's not worth more than 40% of the asking price IMO.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by bterry » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:49 am

Aside from black, Fiesta seems to be the most common custom color that people try to pass off as original when it’s really a refin, unfortunately.

One other thing - IME wide horizontal finish checking is really not common on original finishes from that era - mostly the checking would be along the body top to bottom.

If you can I’d return that one, it’s most-definitely a refin.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by andrewaward » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:01 am

I'd say it was a total bitsa unfortunately.

Doubt any of those parts left the factory together...…….ie the brass shielding is a bit mis-shapped, its "done the rounds" before being nestled in that body......The wire harness has 90% of its original tape missing, so its been off and on again...…...The red paint on the headstock just doesn't look right, might have been done to match the red of the body at a later date...………...and no stick mark on the body will confirm its a refin (and yes can really see that from the pics you provided).............you can also see black paint on the back of the pickguard.


Its probably worth the sum of its parts............as said already approx $3k to $4k
Last edited by andrewaward on Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Squirrel » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:48 am

I'd say it's a refin too, purely on the basis that the finish has way too much orange peel. Yes, vintage Fender finishes weren't perfect but they were done to a much higher standard than what we have here.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by s_mcsleazy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:18 pm

paint looks way too good and something else about it is screaming "refin" but i cant put my finger on it.
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