Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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Paul-T
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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Paul-T » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:56 pm

Johnny wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:20 am


Here are the pictures I took:

Image
This is the one that screams refin. Look at the dished indentations on the left of the trem cover plate; you can see three on its left, in the highlights at the top of the shadow at 10 o'clock. The paint goes over the dings. If the dings were done after the paint job it would be scratched or chipped, but it's smooth. So the paint had to be applied after the dings. Hence refin .

Then if you compare the smoothness of the red paint, with the worn varnish behind the headstock, or the rusty neck screws; it has to be more recent paint.
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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by N0_Camping4U » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:26 pm

I’m certainly no expert. But the fiesta red color and texture look really similar to my guitarists Reranch’d fiesta red Fender XII.

I also agree that the degree of play on everything BUT the finish doesn’t match up. Hell the thing is almost perfect.. seems weird. How are the frets? If worn or played significantly that would indicate some sketchiness.

Also little to no discoloration at all? Anywhere? Nothing under guard or neck pocket seems strange. I remember seeing a video online maybe Norman’s rare guitar or CME but someone had a fiesta red and there was forearm wear and some discoloration under the guard and neck pocket. The neck looked less played than yours and had more discoloration throughout - esp on the arm contour.

I’ll try to look for it to help your case.

Good luck.
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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Hiwatt Bob » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:11 pm

Edit: sorry—meant to reply to a specific comment. I re-read the thread as a whole and admit my post was off.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Johnny » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:05 am

Thanks a lot for all your guys’ replies! Now it seems to me that the refin is legit. I’m now working with the seller to get a refund. Should have came earlier and learn my lessons before pulling the trigger. Will keep updating :)

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Johnny » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:51 am

Does any of you guys know guitar stores/luthiers in New York City or Copenhagen that can provide authentication of vintage guitars? The buyer insist that everything is original while clearly it is not. Also, does anyone know if reverb will provide such service?

Best,
J

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by mgeek » Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:08 am

How long have you had it?

At this point surely under standard selling terms the seller has a duty to take it back? The onus shouldn't be on you to prove it's non originality

Was it bought from the country you are in?

I'm not even a Fender collector and that doesn't ring true in the slightest, a very obvious refin, even from the reverb pics. It's absolutely impossible for a nitro finished guitar to have attained that much legitimate neck wear and not one ding/chip through the paint, to say nothing of the orange peel, finish over dents and lack of arm wear. The seller is a scammer. Name and shame.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Paul-T » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:32 am

Johnny wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:51 am
Does any of you guys know guitar stores/luthiers in New York City or Copenhagen that can provide authentication of vintage guitars? The buyer insist that everything is original while clearly it is not. Also, does anyone know if reverb will provide such service?

Best,
J
Is it a shop or a private seller? What is their location? Can you point to the ad? And did you pay cash or credit card?

I have written books on guitars and could write a letter disputing its originality that would play with Reverb support (although there will be people much better qualified than me). Suggest you email support@Reverb too.

If you're in Europe, you should be able to return under the distance selling regs in any case.
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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Johnny » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:48 am

The situation is a bit complicated. I bought it from a private seller based in Belgium (while me myself lives in New York). Because I don’t have the full fund at the moment I spotted the guitar, we agreeded on a layaway plan — 50% through reverb by PayPal and another 50% through PayPal directly in 60 days. So I payed the first 50% through reverb in October 2018, and then the rest through PayPal a few weeks ago.

Because of the complicated documents I need to import it into the US, given Brazilian rosewood belongs to the Appendix I of CITE, I decided to pick it up myself while traveling in Europe this week. So I picked it up a few days ago in person at Belgium Airport and brought it with me on my tour. The guitar was packed when I got it so I didn’t have a chance to examine it until now, which I’m already in my next destination, Denmark.

Now assume that the seller is truly unaware of the issue, I need to provide proof for him to show that it is indeed being refinished. I know it seems obvious that it’s a refin by everyone here, but the replies on the forum are not strong enough as certification. So I’m thinking to send it to Reverb/CME and let them do the job.

Or if the seller knowingly sold me a refinished guitar at a original price, what actions do you guys advice me to take? As I have mentioned, the reverb transaction happened 2-3 months ago. Will I still be eligible for the reverb protection? Or do I have to make it a dispute through PayPal (which covers any transactions in 180 days)?

Thanks again for anyone who is kind enough to offer me some help.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by andrewaward » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:04 am

It sounds like it is very complicated due to part payments and crossing borders etc.

I'd say you don't want to take it back to the US, as it will then have another set of problems when it comes to shipping it back to the EU.

Where did the seller buy the guitar? Try and find out.

If you get a pic of the body neck pocket showing its full of paint and not half filled then its case closed, its 100% a refin.........a 64 neck pocket should look like this, no ifs or buts:


Image

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by andrewaward » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:10 am

Original Fiesta Red Fenders are very expensive and sought after - owners of these guitars usually know there stuff...…….the chances of the seller actually thinking its 100% legit is slim...……..too many red flags to miss.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by andrewaward » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:25 am


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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Paul-T » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:31 pm

i've just located the dealer who set up this guitar, the setup referred to in the Belgian ad. He describes it as "all original apart from a professional overcolour... the peghead has been refinished... new silkscreen decal."

PM me.
Last edited by Paul-T on Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Paul-T » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:41 pm

The previous buyer of this guitar, in Belgium, was informed it was refinished and oversprayed. He paid €4500 for it on that basis.

Image

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by andrewaward » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:10 pm

Great work Paul-T………...

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Johnny » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:16 pm

Paul-T wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:41 pm
The previous buyer of this guitar, in Belgium, was informed it was refinished and oversprayed. He paid €4500 for it on that basis.

Image

Image
Huge thanks for the information. I’ll pm you and see what actions I can take now.

Best,
J

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