Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by eggwheat » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:25 pm

So why won’t he refund you?

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by andy_tchp » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:49 pm

Open a PayPal dispute immediately, you now have 180 days from the transaction to do this.

The item is not as described and the seller is a liar.
Last edited by andy_tchp on Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by mgeek » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:51 pm

Johnny wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:14 pm
mgeek wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:04 pm
Another angle- did you use a credit card?
I used a debit account that linked to my PayPal. Are you thinking of cancelling the payment from bank level?
yep, it's all worth looking into if the seller is gonna be difficult.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Paul-T » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:17 pm

For Paypal you have to file Item Significantly Not As Described/Advertised (NOT not received). Local pickup only affects him, not you. Stress with them that a dealer who knows the guitar believes this is fraud. You should do this now. Paypal will take the funds out of his account while they resolve the issue, but given the size of the amount he's likely to block his account, so do it today.

But I still think you need a lawyer.
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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by andrewaward » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:08 am

If the seller is refusing to refund I would phone paypal and explain to them what happened and see what they say.

Is he still saying its an original 64 fiesta red jazzzmaster?

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Paul-T » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:40 am

Johnny wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:04 am

Good point. That’s what I was thinking — if he continues to play the ball, I would have to file an “item not received” claim to force a refund. However, I’m a bit worried if reverb messages between me and him can be used as proof for local pickup?

As for the second half of the payment, I sent it manually through PayPal. Does it make a difference? Should I claim the two payments separately or should I contact PayPal and let them know they belong to one purchase?
the previous post to this one suggested there's an issue with collection in person. However, that's a problem for him, not you. It means there's no proof that the buyer has the item and therefore puts the seller at risk. In this case it's irrelevant, because you have the guitar and it's not as described.

What was the payment method for Reverb? Was that Paypal as well?

In any case, file a claim immediately before he can transfer all the money out of his linked bank accounts. IF all the money went thru Paypal that's better for you. You have good third independent evidence. THe issue is likely to be whether they believe new paint to be an issue, but if Roberto or another expert explains the relevance to value, you should be in a good position. Good luck, please keep us updated.
"classic marked down to 20 pence bargain bin fodder'

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Johnny » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:42 am

Paul-T wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:40 am
Johnny wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:04 am

Good point. That’s what I was thinking — if he continues to play the ball, I would have to file an “item not received” claim to force a refund. However, I’m a bit worried if reverb messages between me and him can be used as proof for local pickup?

As for the second half of the payment, I sent it manually through PayPal. Does it make a difference? Should I claim the two payments separately or should I contact PayPal and let them know they belong to one purchase?
the previous post to this one suggested there's an issue with collection in person. However, that's a problem for him, not you. It means there's no proof that the buyer has the item and therefore puts the seller at risk. In this case it's irrelevant, because you have the guitar and it's not as described.

What was the payment method for Reverb? Was that Paypal as well?

In any case, file a claim immediately before he can transfer all the money out of his linked bank accounts. IF all the money went thru Paypal that's better for you. You have good third independent evidence. THe issue is likely to be whether they believe new paint to be an issue, but if Roberto or another expert explains the relevance to value, you should be in a good position. Good luck, please keep us updated.
I was a little worried since I bought it with separate payments and the buyer protection states that only single payment is covered. But I called PayPal this morning and they informed me that I should be protected anyway. So I have already filed separate claims to PayPal and now waiting for response. Hope this will go well.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by andrewaward » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:32 am

That sounds promising

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by mgeek » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:01 am

Paul-T wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:40 am


the previous post to this one suggested there's an issue with collection in person. However, that's a problem for him, not you. It means there's no proof that the buyer has the item and therefore puts the seller at risk. In this case it's irrelevant, because you have the guitar and it's not as described.
That's what I was saying. That if I'm the seller I don't allow paypal + pickup. It's very much an issue for the seller rather than the buyer.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by mbene085 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:32 am

Amazing work by Paul-T. It's so great to see this community band together and help someone out.

Given that there is a traceable, online provenance of this guitar showing it was sold as a refin to this latest seller, I have a hard time imagining that PayPal will give you any trouble in getting your refund.

Fuck that guy. He bought it as a refin and made a conscious decision to defraud someone. I hope there are serious consequences for him. At the very least, a full refund and a lifetime ban from Reverb.

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by otis » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:32 am

It seems Johnny was able to get out this fraude.
The seller listed it again, this time saying it 'probably' had an overspray from the 60's or 70's, but still claiming it is 'not a refinish'!
very strange reasoning...
https://www.2dehands.be/muziek/muziekin ... 17182.html

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Con-Tiki! » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:40 am

alright. bad guy is still on the loose, though.

i think it's also important to remember that the OP spent a ton of cash on something he maybe should have checked into first, and waited a long time to start asking questions.
the photos in that original listing should have been a flag. The finish on that guitar looks like it was brushed on, and should have at least caused some hesitation.
Glad it worked out, but there's a bunch of luck in it.
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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by leokula » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:16 am

Ad wrote:In the last pictures you can see the vertical checking of the finish over the years
Image

Vertical checking? lol aren't these vertical lines just some bad polishing job? I have this in a couple guitars.
Jaguar > Jazzmaster :)

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Paul-T » Sat Feb 16, 2019 1:45 am

It is an overspray of body and headstock (and of course he hasn't mentioned the latter).

This is bizarre, as Johnny hasn't had a refund yet. I wrote his Paypal reference letter, and Johnny just sent this (weird) listing to them as further reference. Perhaps Johnny has been naive, but we shouldn't blame him, we should blame the fraudster.
"classic marked down to 20 pence bargain bin fodder'

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Re: Geniuene 64’ Fiesta Red?

Post by Johnny » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:08 am

Update:

I have just received the official confirmation from Paypal that a full refund will be issued once I returned the guitar. Huge thanks to Paul and his friend Francesco for their solid support. This really isn't going to happen without them.

For everyone's reference, the serial number of the guitar is L54642 and the seller's name is Ben Beirens. The information I gathered is that the guitar was an original 64 fiesta red jazzmaster, but has been "overcolored" back in the 70s or 80s on the body and headstock. There are other disparities as for electronics etc. but the overcolor is for certain. Look out for it in the future and don't be fooled as I did.

Wish everyone can have their dreams guitars (without the trouble I had.)

Best,

Johnny

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