Factory Refin Value

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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eggwheat
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Re: Factory Refin Value

Post by eggwheat » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:33 pm

Yes historically, factory refins go for less than the corresponding non refinshed version. And I mean guitars that have left the factory been played and then sent back to the factory for a refinish, not guitars that may have been sprayed two or more colours before they ever left the factory.

Refins always fetch less no matter what the story..including selmer refins.

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timtam
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Re: Factory Refin Value

Post by timtam » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:08 pm

lalalandstudios wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:20 pm
I would urge that if anyone can't tell the difference between an original Fender factory finish, an authentic Fender factor refin (with its associated markings), or a generic refinish, then you should only buy from truly trusted sources, get an expert to help you examine the instrument, or avoid this market altogether.

It is true that as vintages Jags and Jazzmasters have become more valuable the issue of forgeries/fakes has become more and more significant
So it's possible to fake the markings associated with a Fender factory refin to the point where they would fool many people who know what the markings should be ?
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Re: Factory Refin Value

Post by gringopig » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:45 am

lalalandstudios wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:20 pm
I would urge that if anyone can't tell the difference between an original Fender factory finish, an authentic Fender factor refin (with its associated markings), or a generic refinish, then you should only buy from truly trusted sources, get an expert to help you examine the instrument, or avoid this market altogether.
The problem is that these so-called trusted sources or 'experts' are the very ones who are misrepresenting refinished guitars in the first place. I've seen guitars for sale that have obviously been repainted in some ultra desirable custom colour which are out and out fakes or at least dubious and being sold by 'reputable' outlets. The more you know the market, the more sceptical you become actually.

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Re: Factory Refin Value

Post by offkeyericdee » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:58 am

lalalandstudios wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:44 am
You can absolutely verify an authentic Fender factory refin done by Fender. And provenance is always a huge plus for a vintage guitar regardless of finish but it’s not required to prove a Fender factory refin.

I disagree completely that an authentic Fender factory refin in a desirable custom color would be priced less than a corresponding standard color model. How many verified Fender factory refins have you seen sold recently and what did they sell for? Price would depend on condition, color, and rarity and what else is out there on the market. I agree that they wouldnt price equally to comparable all original custom color but difference may not be that much. They definitely are out there but are not ubiquitous and are a part of Fender’s history.
I do believe you misheard my statement. What I meant to say was if you have a verified factory refin in a rare custom color it'd be worth close to, but not as much as, the same original rare custom color, not a standard color. Allow me to break it down with a fictional 1967 Jazzmaster in excellent/minty fresh condition:

-Original Charcoal Frost would set you back about $15K in today's market
-A formerly sunburst factory refin in the same color would be/could be/is conceivably $12K - not a cheap sum at all
-A standard color, let's say Lake Placid Blue, would be $6K, more or less
-Sunburst in today's market is almost always $4.5K to $5K
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Re: Factory Refin Value

Post by lalalandstudios » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:19 am

offkeyericdee wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:58 am

I do believe you misheard my statement. What I meant to say was if you have a verified factory refin in a rare custom color it'd be worth close to, but not as much as, the same original rare custom color, not a standard color. Allow me to break it down with a fictional 1967 Jazzmaster in excellent/minty fresh condition:

-Original Charcoal Frost would set you back about $15K in today's market
-A formerly sunburst factory refin in the same color would be/could be/is conceivably $12K - not a cheap sum at all
-A standard color, let's say Lake Placid Blue, would be $6K, more or less
-Sunburst in today's market is almost always $4.5K to $5K
No I think you’re on target here and I think I read your earlier post correctly - I was referring to/disagreeing with a couple of the other opinions...

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Re: Factory Refin Value

Post by FrankRay » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:33 am

Just to muddy the water, factory refins can be divided into pre-mid 68 nitro and post mid 68 poly refins. Other problems include changing the pickguard, changing the decals, and changing the body itself occasionally. They often don't have matching headstocks either. When a customer sent the guitar back fender would do whatever had to be done to make the guitar look perfect again.
For instance there was 62 dakota red for sale a few years ago, which had the wrong pickguard (white, not mint) the wrong decal and was poly, not nitro. Initially sold honestly, the dealer later sold it as an original 62 finish. Very dubious, and someone now has a guitar that is, IMO, considerable less desirable than an actual 62 dakota red.
It's a real can of worms, I think, factory refins.

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Re: Factory Refin Value

Post by lalalandstudios » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:03 am

FrankRay wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:33 am
Just to muddy the water, factory refins can be divided into pre-mid 68 nitro and post mid 68 poly refins. Other problems include changing the pickguard, changing the decals, and changing the body itself occasionally. They often don't have matching headstocks either. When a customer sent the guitar back fender would do whatever had to be done to make the guitar look perfect again.
For instance there was 62 dakota red for sale a few years ago, which had the wrong pickguard (white, not mint) the wrong decal and was poly, not nitro. Initially sold honestly, the dealer later sold it as an original 62 finish. Very dubious, and someone now has a guitar that is, IMO, considerable less desirable than an actual 62 dakota red.
It's a real can of worms, I think, factory refins.
These various attributes when represented properly and honestly, verified to be authentic by someone who knows, and priced appropriately are a potential bonus to the buyer and a part of Fender history.

Alternatively, representing such an instrument as all original would be the definition of “not trustworthy” either due to lack of knowledge or lack of ethics. Regardless of etiology such a dealer could not be trusted. And yes there are lots of anecdotes about such occurrences. And there are also those that absolutely can be trusted (but you should still still verify everything).

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