Time For A Game Of: What Is It Really Worth?

[debian]

Yeah, anybody thinking $8K is dreaming and must have slept through the entire pandemic.

Even early veneer board sunburst JMs are in the $12-15K range depending on condition. There's enough of these guitars around in sunburst that pricing them out isn't too difficult.

A slab board '62 sunburst JM in good shape is pretty squarely a $12,500 guitar +/- 10% depending on who is selling it (i.e.. a random private party seller on Reverb cannot achieve the same kind of prices a reputable known dealer can).

Yeah, so I'm here and can read this. Are you awake? Not really cool to slag on me, especially when the point of this post is me admitting I don't know what they sell for, in case you missed that part.

Also, veneer does see asking prices in the $12k - $15k range, but these sit all day, every day...for years in some cases. So yes, that does make it difficult to determine pricing.

Chill out.

You're the one who started a thread called "What is it really worth?" and then answered your own question in the first post, followed by your own prediction of its market value. It seems like this entire thread was designed to argue with people.

If you truly don't know much about the vintage guitar market, and current values, then ask the question and sit down.

I don't understand how any of that gives you the right to take an attitude with someone you don't know, but I guess that's just the internet - the hostile place. I'm actually totally fine if you had just said to start with, that in your experience, that type of guitar would go for $13-$16k and provided some context, without bagging on my lack of recent experience with vintage guitars.

I don't think there was anything wrong with taking a guess and throwing some numbers out there to get started, but I also realized I can't very well answer my own questions based on my own speculation. Case in point - I see now that I was low in my estimate, but that's what I'm here to learn (although the consensus so far does not lean towards asking prices being accurate). Yes, to me it seems the asking price is high even given what it is and so I asked if anyone would pay that, but that's my opinion, and I'm allowed to have one. If somebody educates me on why that is or the general known rules for vintage guitar pricing, it's all for the better. I am learning from some of the other posts here. I'm fine with you disagreeing, not sure why that's a big deal either - I'd listen to your take on the price. But if you can't handle it, then you didn't have to post, not sure why this is so offensive to you?

[Embenny]

OSG isn't "the hostile internet," or at least it doesn't need to be. We can get along here. Looks like you two might have had a bit of a misunderstanding regarding some semantics here, no need to make it personal. Let's all take a deep breath and go back to talking about Offset prices, because there's been some interesting stuff brought up already and I for one am learning a few things from posts in this thread as someone who doesn't follow prices closely unless I'm actively trying to buy or sell something.

[Highnumbers]

I don't understand how any of that gives you the right to take an attitude with someone you don't know, but I guess that's just the internet - the hostile place. I'm actually totally fine if you had just said to start with, that in your experience, that type of guitar would go for $13-$16k and provided some context, without bagging on my lack of recent experience with vintage guitars.

If you calm down, check your ego at the door and re-read what I wrote, I think you'll find I wasn't copping an attitude or being hostile. You're being dramatic.

It was merely a blunt response to a question, and agreeing that you don't know what you're talking about. Which we all agree on, apparently.

Clutching your pearls and acting wildly offended at the smallest comment (that wasn't intended to provoke) is not productive.

[debian]

I don't understand how any of that gives you the right to take an attitude with someone you don't know, but I guess that's just the internet - the hostile place. I'm actually totally fine if you had just said to start with, that in your experience, that type of guitar would go for $13-$16k and provided some context, without bagging on my lack of recent experience with vintage guitars.

If you calm down, check your ego at the door and re-read what I wrote, I think you'll find I wasn't copping an attitude or being hostile. You're being dramatic.

It was merely a blunt response to a question, and agreeing that you don't know what you're talking about. Which we all agree on, apparently.

Clutching your pearls and acting wildly offended at the smallest comment (that wasn't intended to provoke) is not productive.

Hostile means being unfriendly. Being friendly would be to give someone the benefit of the doubt, especially someone you don't know. I'm not sleeping or dreaming for your information, I've had other priorities in life and haven't been obsessed over the pricing of vintage guitars in quite some time.

[debian]

OSG isn't "the hostile internet," or at least it doesn't need to be. We can get along here. Looks like you two might have had a bit of a misunderstanding regarding some semantics here, no need to make it personal. Let's all take a deep breath and go back to talking about Offset prices, because there's been some interesting stuff brought up already and I for one am learning a few things from posts in this thread as someone who doesn't follow prices closely unless I'm actively trying to buy or sell something.

Thanks, I appreciate that! I hope the discussion can get back on track, because pricing seems to be a big obstacle for many, and I wanted this post to give more context for everyone, myself included.

[Highnumbers]

Hostile means being unfriendly. Being friendly would be to give someone the benefit of the doubt, especially someone you don't know. I'm not sleeping or dreaming for your information, I've had other priorities in life and haven't been obsessed over the pricing of vintage guitars in quite some time.

I've never seen anybody get this worked up over such a benign comment in my life. Honestly, grow a thicker skin and move on.

-----------------------------

Bringing it back to the actual topic here. Even clean early veneer board JMs are bringing $12-15K within the past year (not "sitting for years" as erroneously claimed). I sold a near mint '62 veneer board to a dealer at the low end of that range about 9 months ago and it sold above that range within a day or two. The market has cooled off since that point, but not below what wholesale prices were 9 months ago.

[PapaB]

You are welcomed. Good luck with your future purchases!

[debian]

Hostile means being unfriendly. Being friendly would be to give someone the benefit of the doubt, especially someone you don't know. I'm not sleeping or dreaming for your information, I've had other priorities in life and haven't been obsessed over the pricing of vintage guitars in quite some time.

I've never seen anybody get this worked up over such a benign comment in my life. Honestly, grow a thicker skin and move on.

-----------------------------

Bringing it back to the actual topic here. Even clean early veneer board JMs are bringing $12-15K within the past year (not "sitting for years" as erroneously claimed). I sold a near mint '62 veneer board to a dealer at the low end of that range about 9 months ago and it sold above that range within a day or two. The market has cooled off since that point, but not below what wholesale prices were 9 months ago.

I don't think it's that hard to understand really. You could've been kinder in your reply instead of implying I've been living under a rock for 3 years, especially with all that's happened over that time.

The very guitar I mentioned at the start has been listed for a year by the way. I'm sorry I asked this question now, but at least I got some insights earlier on.

[debian]

You are welcomed. Good luck with your future purchases!

Thanks, you are great community. I sure hope to afford one at some point, whenever that may be!

[Jonesie]

I'm really curious about Jazzmaster prices these days. As I've posted about before, I have a vintage(ish) JM and I have no idea what it'd even be worth. The weird parts:

1968 Neck plate
Late 50s / Early 60s Pickups (black bobbin, red windings)
Actual body year is in question, as the finish is original, and it seems to be 100% nitro, from what I can tell, based on the wear patterns / aging.
Original Trem, original bridge (though I swapped the bridge for a Mastery and added a Staytrem to the trem)
Original Pickguard / switches.
At least one pot is unoriginal (250k tone), the volume pot has so much solder on it that it can't be read.
Replacement neck of unknown origin. My tech and I suspect that it's some late 80s / early 90s Japanese aftermarket neck, due to its heel truss rod adjustment (but with a hex wrench adjustment, not philips head), 7.25" radius, vintage frets, and rosewood veneer fretboard.

I know that the replacement neck is a huge ding on resale price, but I'm not planning on selling it anyways. It's just tough to even guess what this would go for though. If complete, all original 60s JM's are going for $8k - $10k would $4k be a safe bet on this? Higher? Lower?

Anyways, long live the Jeez-Master.

[Embenny]

I'm really curious about Jazzmaster prices these days. As I've posted about before, I have a vintage(ish) JM and I have no idea what it'd even be worth. The weird parts:

1968 Neck plate
Late 50s / Early 60s Pickups (black bobbin, red windings)
Actual body year is in question, as the finish is original, and it seems to be 100% nitro, from what I can tell, based on the wear patterns / aging.
Original Trem, original bridge (though I swapped the bridge for a Mastery and added a Staytrem to the trem)
Original Pickguard / switches.
At least one pot is unoriginal (250k tone), the volume pot has so much solder on it that it can't be read.
Replacement neck of unknown origin. My tech and I suspect that it's some late 80s / early 90s Japanese aftermarket neck, due to its heel truss rod adjustment (but with a hex wrench adjustment, not philips head), 7.25" radius, vintage frets, and rosewood veneer fretboard.

I know that the replacement neck is a huge ding on resale price, but I'm not planning on selling it anyways. It's just tough to even guess what this would go for though. If complete, all original 60s JM's are going for $8k - $10k would $4k be a safe bet on this? Higher? Lower?

Without the original neck and with replaced pots, it gets treated as a parts guitar, so you have to price it out part by part, even if it's sold as a whole. There's no added value to the fact that they're being sold together (in fact, it's usually cheaper to buy parts guitars as a whole, because the seller doesn't have to go through all the extra effort of selling it all individually).

The pickups are worth something, that's for sure, but I'm not up on recent prices on those. You also have to be able to definitively prove their age, since they don't match any other parts you've dated so far. The neck is not worth much at all. The body comes down to whether there are enough markings and signs to prove it's a Fender, what era of Fender it is, and how original the finish is. You'd have to take off all the parts, document it thoroughly and see if you can prove those things. The finish in the neck pocket and cavities tell you a lot, as do the pattern or absence of nail marks and pencil marks. That makes the difference between a value in the hundreds (if it doesn't look like genuine Fender) and a value in the multiple thousands (if it's all-original pre-CBS). That neck plate is from 1968, and its incongruence with the pickup style immediately casts doubt on the origin of the body itself, so you really have to prove everything on the basis of the wood and finish itself.

The original trem fetches around $300 on eBay (I've watched a few auctions recently that ended in the $250-$350 range). The bridge goes for less than that. Vintage tort guards go for several hundred dollars, easily. The 250k pot has no value and its unidentifiable neighbour therefore wouldn't, either. The more unoriginal parts on a guitar, the less benefit of a doubt you get on anything that can't be conclusively proven to be original. When nothing can be proven to be replaced, the unidentifiable parts often get forgiven.

So, until you can answer the questions regarding originality of the body itself, you really can't price it out. Could be worth anywhere from $2k if you can't prove anything about the body at all to $4k if you can prove the body is pre-CBS with an original finish.

Someone with more recent experience pricing out each of those parts could correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my best shot at it.

[Jonesie]

I'm really curious about Jazzmaster prices these days. As I've posted about before, I have a vintage(ish) JM and I have no idea what it'd even be worth. The weird parts:

1968 Neck plate
Late 50s / Early 60s Pickups (black bobbin, red windings)
Actual body year is in question, as the finish is original, and it seems to be 100% nitro, from what I can tell, based on the wear patterns / aging.
Original Trem, original bridge (though I swapped the bridge for a Mastery and added a Staytrem to the trem)
Original Pickguard / switches.
At least one pot is unoriginal (250k tone), the volume pot has so much solder on it that it can't be read.
Replacement neck of unknown origin. My tech and I suspect that it's some late 80s / early 90s Japanese aftermarket neck, due to its heel truss rod adjustment (but with a hex wrench adjustment, not philips head), 7.25" radius, vintage frets, and rosewood veneer fretboard.

I know that the replacement neck is a huge ding on resale price, but I'm not planning on selling it anyways. It's just tough to even guess what this would go for though. If complete, all original 60s JM's are going for $8k - $10k would $4k be a safe bet on this? Higher? Lower?

Without the original neck and with replaced pots, it gets treated as a parts guitar, so you have to price it out part by part, even if it's sold as a whole. There's no added value to the fact that they're being sold together (in fact, it's usually cheaper to buy parts guitars as a whole, because the seller doesn't have to go through all the extra effort of selling it all individually).

The pickups are worth something, that's for sure, but I'm not up on recent prices on those. You also have to be able to definitively prove their age, since they don't match any other parts you've dated so far. The neck is not worth much at all. The body comes down to whether there are enough markings and signs to prove it's a Fender, what era of Fender it is, and how original the finish is. You'd have to take off all the parts, document it thoroughly and see if you can prove those things. The finish in the neck pocket and cavities tell you a lot, as do the pattern or absence of nail marks and pencil marks. That makes the difference between a value in the hundreds (if it doesn't look like genuine Fender) and a value in the multiple thousands (if it's all-original pre-CBS). That neck plate is from 1968, and its incongruence with the pickup style immediately casts doubt on the origin of the body itself, so you really have to prove everything on the basis of the wood and finish itself.

The original trem fetches around $300 on eBay (I've watched a few auctions recently that ended in the $250-$350 range). The bridge goes for less than that. Vintage tort guards go for several hundred dollars, easily. The 250k pot has no value and its unidentifiable neighbour therefore wouldn't, either. The more unoriginal parts on a guitar, the less benefit of a doubt you get on anything that can't be conclusively proven to be original. When nothing can be proven to be replaced, the unidentifiable parts often get forgiven.

So, until you can answer the questions regarding originality of the body itself, you really can't price it out. Could be worth anywhere from $2k if you can't prove anything about the body at all to $4k if you can prove the body is pre-CBS with an original finish.

Someone with more recent experience pricing out each of those parts could correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my best shot at it.

Here's my original thread with more pictures, should you be curious. Not trying to hijack the thread. Sorry!

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=124362&p=1758462#p1758462

[Highnumbers]

I don't think it's that hard to understand really. You could've been kinder in your reply instead of implying I've been living under a rock for 3 years, especially with all that's happened over that time.

The very guitar I mentioned at the start has been listed for a year by the way. I'm sorry I asked this question now, but at least I got some insights earlier on.

I actually find it amusing at this point, that you are so aghast at a throwaway comment and expect people on the internet to coddle you with every word. As I said, grow a thicker skin and move on.

IIRC, this particular listing at Gary's was taken down for some time and then returned to Reverb. It's a strange quirk, but Reverb counts the full period since a listing was first published - even any time that that the listing was inactive. You can post a listing for five minutes, end it and relist five years later and it will appear on Reverb that the listing has been up for five years.

Gary's prices are usually on the high side of retail but I don't see a top dealer letting a slab board '62 sunburst JM in good shape sell for less than $14K, even in this market. It'll sell, eventually.

[debian]

I don't think it's that hard to understand really. You could've been kinder in your reply instead of implying I've been living under a rock for 3 years, especially with all that's happened over that time.

The very guitar I mentioned at the start has been listed for a year by the way. I'm sorry I asked this question now, but at least I got some insights earlier on.

I actually find it amusing at this point, that you are so aghast at a throwaway comment and expect people on the internet to coddle you with every word. As I said, grow a thicker skin and move on.

IIRC, this particular listing at Gary's was taken down for some time and then returned to Reverb. It's a strange quirk, but Reverb counts the full period since a listing was first published - even any time that that the listing was inactive. You can post a listing for five minutes, end it and relist five years later and it will appear on Reverb that the listing has been up for five years.

Gary's prices are usually on the high side of retail but I don't see a top dealer letting a slab board '62 sunburst JM in good shape sell for less than $14K, even in this market. It'll sell, eventually.

You're missing the point. It's a bad look on the community here when you belittle someone that rarely even posts. Is that the kind of welcome/welcome back someone should expect here? Also, you subsequently went on to personally attack me, so there's that.

That's interesting about Reverb, but somehow I don't think it's only really been up for a month or something.

[Highnumbers]

You're missing the point. It's a bad look on the community here when you belittle someone that rarely even posts. Is that the kind of welcome/welcome back someone should expect here? Also, you subsequently went on to personally attack me, so there's that.

That's interesting about Reverb, but somehow I don't think it's only really been up for a month or something.

Please, save it. Your emotional fragility doesn't speak for the entire community. That's a bad look.

Instead of focusing on the discussion, you're focusing on your overreaction to a non-offensive statement. I'm done taking the bait on this. Like I've said three times now, move on.