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Shaftesbury, Shaftsbury?

What is there to know about them? I might have a deal on a Rickenbacker look-alike.

I can't say with 100% certainty (and I'm far too laz... er, busy to check), but I believe the 4001 copy that Peter Hook used in the early days of Joy Division was a Shaftsbury.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 5938_n.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is the one. The seller is asking 150€, but some saddles (at least) seems to be missing, and she doesn't seem to know what it really is, so I think I might talk it down a bit.

mongoose wrote:I can't say with 100% certainty (and I'm far too laz... er, busy to check), but I believe the 4001 copy that Peter Hook used in the early days of Joy Division was a Shaftsbury.

Pretty sure it was a Hondo.

Shaftesbury was the UK importer's name attached to a small range of guitars from about 1968-1974. That distributor was Rose-Morris, who also had the concessions for Marshall amplifiers and Rickenbacker guitars. Their main office (and flagship retail shop) was then in Shaftesbury Avenue, London W1, and the street gave its name to the guitars.

The first batch appeared in late 1968 and were the three Rickenbacker-based semi-acoustics, a six-string, a 12-string and a bass. All three were based on the 330 style of guitar; there was no attempt to make the bass look like a 4001. They were all finished in sunburst with white scratchplates. Hardware and pickups were vaguely similar to the original, but there was no effort to make them identical or anything like identical. Nevertheless, this was a new experience for the UK: there had been vague copies of Fenders and Gibson guitars on the market, but nothing like this, where the curves and appointment lay-out were unmistakable.

The next two guitars turned up in 1969, in the form of a rough copy of a Fender Thinline Tele and a more accurate copy of a Gibson Barney Kessel, which even went some way to replicating the bow-tie inlays of the BK Custom and treble clef sign on the headstock. It was only the tuners and pickups which let it down.

A year or so later, the Shaftesbury "00" came along - a bolt-on version of the Les Paul Custom (the first close copy of the LP seen in the UK, if you exclude the twice-as-expensive Grimshaw G30).

The last Shaftesbury guitar was a much better copy of the LP Custom, with a set-neck, a cherry sunburst finish and real humbucker pickups (all previous pickups had been single-coil, even if designed to look like h/bs).

I'd love to get hold of the BK copy I bought in 1969...

JN

weed_killer wrote:

mongoose wrote:I can't say with 100% certainty (and I'm far too laz... er, busy to check), but I believe the 4001 copy that Peter Hook used in the early days of Joy Division was a Shaftsbury.

Pretty sure it was a Hondo.

Hondo seems to be correct, unfortunately That's one reason less to buy this!

Does anybody know what would be an OK price for this? It's not a spot-on Rickenbacker, and it's a litte bit ugly, but still cool and unusual guitars doesn't appear around my parts too often, so this is sort of a novelty. Missing one saddle and some "metal cover" (The bridge cover?)

150€ = 197$ = 126£ = 186 AUD, for reference

EDIT: Rose-Morris sponsored instrument Stock N o 3621 Serial N0 1620 made in Italy

If you're expecting rickenbacker, I wouldn't- but if you're just expecting cool old hollowbody, you might go check it out. I have an old ibanez 330 copy, and I seriously doubt it's all that close in sound to the real thing (it's kind of an oddball, even for something that's suppose to be a rick copy), but it's got it's own awesome jangly sound.

I used to have one of the Ricky copies (six string) about 20 years ago. I paid £90 for it and sold it for the same about 2 months later. It was unplayable live due to feedback (really bad) but it recorded very nicely. 150 Euros seems reasonable, but don't expect too much.

I've played one of the Barney Kessels and it was excellent(would have bought it but was skint at the time- quelle surprise!) .
I have a Tele thinline which may have begun life as a Shaftesbury. The neck was totally shit as was all hardware apart from the neck pickup which had a bit of character. Needed new neck, bridge/tp, pots etc.

Here's a piccy of The Stones from the Rick Resource forum which has Bill Wyman with what is apparently a Shaftesbury ric-esque bass.

Ceylon wrote:http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 5938_n.jpg

This is the one. The seller is asking 150€, but some saddles (at least) seems to be missing, and she doesn't seem to know what it really is, so I think I might talk it down a bit.

Hard to go wrong at that price. You'll have no trouble reselling it for what you paid and then some....though if selling on eBay your listing may well fall victim to Rickenbacker's aggressive patent protection branch asking eBay to jump, followed by eBay saying "How high?".

Jimbo is spot on with his info (10 Mar 2012). I bought a Shaftesbury 12 string from Rose-Morris in Shaftesbury Avenue in May 1969, and still own it, 43 years on. It cost 62 guineas (£65.10), which was a lot of money, but nowhere near the 260 guineas (£273) that the Rickenbacker 12 sold for at that time. It has the same tuning peg arrangement as the Ricky, i.e. each side has 2 sets of 3, at 90 degrees to each other to save space, and thus minimise the required length of the headstock. It takes a while to restring, but I've got used to it! It's still in terrific condition - here's a picture of it ... http://www.flickr.com/photos/100301729@N03" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; It occasionally gets an outing in my band, where I use it on When You Walk In The Room, Handle With Care, You Wear It Well, I Don't Wanna Talk About It, If I Were A Carpenter etc.