vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - differences?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - differences?

Post by Pacafeliz » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:35 pm

hey there!
i was wondering, what are the differences to tell a vintage jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato apart from an older AVRI one?
the diff from the japanese ones are quite obvious, but i couldn't find anything about AVRIs vs. vintage in the library or anywhere...

thnx,

Pat.
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by Pacafeliz » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:48 am

...no? :-/
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by fullerplast » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:09 am

I'm sorry I can't help you with this one, Pat. As far as I know, they are the same. I can't think of any giveaway hints where you could tell at a glance. In fact, I've aged some RIs and they look scary real.
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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by noisepunk » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:45 am

They're probably functionally the most similar of all of them too.
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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by Jaguar018 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:40 pm

There are a few people, here and elsewhere, that swear that there is a difference between vintage vibratos and the AVRI version. Personally I haven't really been able to tell.

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by mcjt » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:05 am

i have an AVRI and a 58-61 Pat Pend trem.
They look pretty much identical.
I think Jim Shine reports that the trem BEFORE 1962 had a stiffer spring. The spring was made a little lighter in 1962 as the trem was going into Jazzmasters and Jags. The Jaguar had lighter tension and the trem would have been hard to use.

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by Vintage_DWARF » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:38 am

Well I may know one difference:

Both e-strings touch the screw of my AVRI-tremolo unit - so this contact between the screw-head and the strings stops the vibration of the strings behind the bridge, I think. All vintage tremolo units, I know, don't. So I guess the head of the screw is flatter than on the AVRI-units or something else is different ?

Anyone, who owns both and has experienced the same ?
:unsure:

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by otis » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:07 pm

The head of the screws is indeed round on the reissues and a bit flattened on the vintage ones, but this is fairly commonly known.
I think the question is more about the trem units themselves.
Since it seems that most of the original molds were recuperated to create the AVRI series Jazzmaster, chances are high they are indeed the same.

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by PJazzmaster » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:59 pm

thats it! flat screw plus the fact that the holes for the strings are drilled a bit higher than on AVRI (my experience)...so both e strings are not touching the upper and the lower 2 of the 3 fat screws at all. the strings behind the bridge ring out better and longer, mainly due to the higher string slots and the flatter screws. I also think that the springs of vintage units are a tad harder / stiffer comparing to AVRI
Last edited by PJazzmaster on Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by PJazzmaster » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:59 pm

1963
Image
Image

pre 1961/1962
Image

vs. AVRI
Image

vs. MIJ
Image

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by pulse. » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:07 am

I can't find a difference myself too, but when I had the opportunity to talk with Nels about jazzmasters,
he mentioned that they have a huge difference, what can I tell?

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by OffYourFace » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:09 pm

The AVRI is pretty much the same thing as the Pat # unit. The metal used back in the day is of better quality like most things... but other than that, it's the same.

I added this info on springs about three years ago... http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... 29&t=26279" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
synth tech at www.rosensound.com

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by ohm-men » Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:23 am

Dimension wise there are no differences. But the chrome plating is of higher quality, esp on the Pat. Pend trems. The "knob" of the trem lock is more rounder.
The weight is a bit more on the vintage ones (again, I refer to the Pat Pend) The trem arm end is shapped a bit defferent too, as it sits tighter in the collet.and even after 50 years, the trem arm didn't swing. (Trem I'm refering to is now on OffYourFace's 59 JM, I think)
The spring is also better (could be the years of use as well) but the overall movement is smoother.

The height of the holes in the "string anchor" seam to differ too. It's hard to tell, but on the pat pend I never had the strings rub against the screws, even without a shim.

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by FPicker » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:31 am

I recall reading that the collets are different. The old ones had a particular shape that better kept the whammy bars from flopping around loose. IIRC.

[edit ooops guy right above me said that already]
Last edited by FPicker on Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: vintage vs. AVRI jag/jazz tailpiece/vibrato - difference

Post by blacktiger » Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:40 pm

Isn't the spring on vintage trems dark/black and chrome/silver on AVRIs?
my vinyl weighs a ton

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