DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak, etc.

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by maximee » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:54 pm

antisymmetric wrote:
Stratelejazzuar wrote:
Also, I wonder if lifestyles from 50-60 years back (diet/habits/etc), would have affected the chemical makeup of sweat and natural oils, causing them to react differently with the finishes used back then.
Good point, this^.
I'm pretty open minded and I like the out of the box thinking – but this seems a bit too much like voodoo magic to me.

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by øøøøøøø » Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:38 pm

Telliot wrote:One thing I've noticed is vintage Fender finishes seem different from other manufacturers. In my experience, old Gibsons don't seem to have the same silky feel as their Fender counterpart
Yes!! This is a very important point. I actually intended to bring that up but forgot to mention it.

This is why I discount any of the other more esoteric explanations-- diet, sweat, etc. Simply put, only Fender and maybe a few other manufacturers used lacquer that did this. I have an old Kay Value Leader that seems to kind of have the same general feel going on to the neck lacquer. I have a few old Gibsons and Epiphones, and none of them do this.

I even have one Gibson with a maple neck (though it's a bit later-- Norlin era) and have played many more Norlin-era maple-neck Gibsons, and the lacquer feels pretty much just like all the other Gibsons... so that would seem to remove that variable.

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by mgeek » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:28 am

maximee wrote:
antisymmetric wrote:
Stratelejazzuar wrote:
Also, I wonder if lifestyles from 50-60 years back (diet/habits/etc), would have affected the chemical makeup of sweat and natural oils, causing them to react differently with the finishes used back then.
Good point, this^.
I'm pretty open minded and I like the out of the box thinking – but this seems a bit too much like voodoo magic to me.
Yes- this is meant in the best possible way, but I did 'lol' when I read that ;)

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by øøøøøøø » Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:46 am

Does anyone here have a guitar, built or restored by a current builder/refinisher, that captures this feel at all, or even comes close? Preferably someone who has an old Fender as well, or has played a lot of them, and can directly compare.

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by StevenO » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:47 am

I've heard a lot of people mention that Danocaster makes the necks feel the same way vintage Fenders do, unlike other people who have done relicing.

I wonder if some kind of French polish could replicate the same kind of feel, almost similar to that on the back of the necks of concert-level violins, cellos, upright basses, etc.

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by Stratelejazzuar » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:59 am

Lol, that'll teach me for thinking out loud.

I was just sort of thinking that if we end up getting nowhere with the type or method of lacquer used, then maybe we should look to external factors that could have contribute to the "feel". Hands are what touches the back of the neck most, so the sweat/oil thing popped into my mind. My buddy in high school seemed to have "acid hands" for a while, and I would hate even picking up his guitars because they would feel gross and crusty; he'd wear out new strings quickly, and have to constantly be wiping off his guitar so that it wouldn't be "grody" (that'd the term we used). They were poly finished necks too. I wonder if he would've mucked up a nitro neck, lol.

:)

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by øøøøøøø » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:43 am

it's not totally far-fetched, actually! I just don't think it's a big factor in this particular case.

Triglycerides (a type of fatty acid, I think) can come out in your skin oils. Triglycerides also can act as plasticizers.

It has been explained to me that when some vintage guitars get that gummy feeling and never seem to get hard or be able to be cleaned or buffed, that this might be a factor.

I of course don't have the requisite knowledge to confirm this absolutely, of course.

But the difference in behavior between Fender and Gibson lacquers, in terms of feel, would seem to rule this out.

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by maximee » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:58 am

øøøøøøø wrote:it's not totally far-fetched, actually! I just don't think it's a big factor in this particular case.

Triglycerides (a type of fatty acid, I think) can come out in your skin oils. Triglycerides also can act as plasticizers.

It has been explained to me that when some vintage guitars get that gummy feeling and never seem to get hard or be able to be cleaned or buffed, that this might be a factor.

I of course don't have the requisite knowledge to confirm this absolutely, of course.

But the difference in behavior between Fender and Gibson lacquers, in terms of feel, would seem to rule this out.
I too think hands do play a role - I just don't think hands nowadays are at all different from hands in the 60s.

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by Danocaster » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:32 am

I think it's a very hard finish to duplicate… Especially if you start with your normal 5 to 8 coats of gloss Nitro

Certainly to shoot it with clear nitro and then sand it off will never achieve that feel in my opinion. I've tried a million things and finally stumbled on what I use now - which is a mixture of oil and lacquer applied via a French polish finish/approach .. It's pretty unorthodox but I'm very pleased with the results.

I think the trick… However you go after it… Is to use lots of small very thin coats and to burnish / sand each coat before applying the next

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:03 pm

Danocaster wrote:I think it's a very hard finish to duplicate… Especially if you start with your normal 5 to 8 coats of gloss Nitro

Certainly to shoot it with clear nitro and then sand it off will never achieve that feel in my opinion. I've tried a million things and finally stumbled on what I use now - which is a mixture of oil and lacquer applied via a French polish finish/approach .. It's pretty unorthodox but I'm very pleased with the results.

I think the trick… However you go after it… Is to use lots of small very thin coats and to burnish / sand each coat before applying the next
Very interesting.

I've been playing my old Jazzmaster (with the nicest feeling neck in the known universe!) followed by my Telecaster/Gretsch mashup that has a poly finished neck that's been rubbed down with a Scotchbrite pad to take off the shine & feel less sticky. Obviously they're worlds apart but I'd love to get the neck closer in feel to my Jazzmaster.

Would you mind me asking what oil you use with the laquer?
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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by øøøøøøø » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:12 pm

Danocaster wrote:I think it's a very hard finish to duplicate… Especially if you start with your normal 5 to 8 coats of gloss Nitro

Certainly to shoot it with clear nitro and then sand it off will never achieve that feel in my opinion. I've tried a million things and finally stumbled on what I use now - which is a mixture of oil and lacquer applied via a French polish finish/approach .. It's pretty unorthodox but I'm very pleased with the results.

I think the trick… However you go after it… Is to use lots of small very thin coats and to burnish / sand each coat before applying the next
Hmm... I wonder if anyone in NYC that I know personally has one of your guitars. I'd love to try it out and see what it feels like.

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by Danocaster » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:16 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Hmm... I wonder if anyone in NYC that I know personally has one of your guitars. I'd love to try it out and see what it feels like.
I can't really give you the name of anybody but there's probably 100 of them in New York City at this point. You just want to make sure it's the newer one with my signature logo on the headstock… Not the older freaking series ( which is just straight nitro like everybody else

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by Danocaster » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:17 pm

I should also point out that my process needs to start with completely raw bare wood - without even a sealer on it

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by jbiscuti » Sat Oct 10, 2015 3:46 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Danocaster wrote:I think it's a very hard finish to duplicate… Especially if you start with your normal 5 to 8 coats of gloss Nitro

Certainly to shoot it with clear nitro and then sand it off will never achieve that feel in my opinion. I've tried a million things and finally stumbled on what I use now - which is a mixture of oil and lacquer applied via a French polish finish/approach .. It's pretty unorthodox but I'm very pleased with the results.

I think the trick… However you go after it… Is to use lots of small very thin coats and to burnish / sand each coat before applying the next
Hmm... I wonder if anyone in NYC that I know personally has one of your guitars. I'd love to try it out and see what it feels like.
If you can wait a couple of months... :)

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Re: DEEP vintage Fender lacquer "feel" ?'s for Dano, Novak,

Post by øøøøøøø » Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:02 pm

jbiscuti wrote:
øøøøøøø wrote:
Danocaster wrote:I think it's a very hard finish to duplicate… Especially if you start with your normal 5 to 8 coats of gloss Nitro

Certainly to shoot it with clear nitro and then sand it off will never achieve that feel in my opinion. I've tried a million things and finally stumbled on what I use now - which is a mixture of oil and lacquer applied via a French polish finish/approach .. It's pretty unorthodox but I'm very pleased with the results.

I think the trick… However you go after it… Is to use lots of small very thin coats and to burnish / sand each coat before applying the next
Hmm... I wonder if anyone in NYC that I know personally has one of your guitars. I'd love to try it out and see what it feels like.
If you can wait a couple of months...
I think I can!!

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