Cursed '66 Yamaha SG2

[msal]

Hi all, looking for some advice here. I'm trying to restore a sunburst 1966 Yamaha SG2 I bought on reverb. When I got the guitar (from Japan btw), the already tiny frets were worn to the point that the strings would catch during bends. Everything else seems functional albeit a little beat up. I thought it'd be trivial to get a refret done but that has proven to be way wrong

I've taken the guitar to several local luthiers with varying degrees of success - worst of which pulled the old frets and went AWOL. The others essentially tried to talk me out of hiring them, citing the back-bow, lack of remaining truss rod adjustment, and fretboard condition as making the project not worth it. This is all over the course of a year and change.

Here's what I'm working with. I would need to do a refret and straighten the neck (not seeing the purported back-bow). I'd also like to get a replacement tremolo arm, refurbish the knobs, and make a new pickguard. Maybe even a custom color refinish a la Sonichris.











To my eyes, this thing is so far from unsalvageable but I'm not an expert. Does this look workable for a refret? I've noticed that the rosewood is fairly thin but not any more so than a vintage Fender.
I would love to get some input from others who see the value in these guitars! Thanks for reading.

[SuperAxe]

msal, i'll have it but shipping to NZ might kill it

Anyway, that is entirely doable. The fretboard looks nice and when I pulled out my frets I had similar damage. Can all be fixed. See my SG2 restoration thread: https://offsetguitars.com/forums/viewt ... &t=120819

Edit- I forgot my website is down so can't see the photos. Hoping to have it live again late February

The original tang for the SG2 is 0.42mm which I enlarged to 0.6mm as I could not get any 0.42mm fretwire. Check out the fret slots width as your 'luthier' might have already widened the slots.

The (back?) bow in the neck can be fixed with heat and tension- carefully though.

I make these vibrato arms - see my youtube video - so can supply if you like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOKvkbnqVS8

Other than that - GO FOR IT

[mynameisjonas]

My advice is to fix the backbow (with heat and clamping as already mentioned), get new frets installed, and get it up and running with minimal changes to the rest of the guitar. I'd leave the knobs and the pickguard alone, as long as they're not falling off the guitar.

[Fuzzbuzz]

If the truss rod is maxed out, you’re looking at a $1000 neck job. The bad news is that without the truss rod being replaced, the neck is not salvageable. Personally, it look for a replacement neck.

[mynameisjonas]

A backbow can be fixed pretty easily, you don't need to spend $1000. I did it myself on a 60s Guyatone neck that was both slightly warped and had a pretty severe backbow, using just a hairdryer and two clamps. I made a spacer from folded up cardboard that I placed on the peak of the bow, and then gently clamped the neck down to a thick board after heating it a few minutes with the hair dryer. I let it sit for a few days and did it all over again, but applying a bit more tension this time. I repeated the whole process about 4 or 5 times, and then let it sit for a few weeks. Several years later, the neck is still straight as an arrow.

A forward bow with a maxed out truss rod can be fixed the same way btw, but of course then you're placing spacers at the nut and heel end of the neck, and clamping in the middle. The thing is to go really slowly, and not try to bend it too much at a time. Let the whole process take a few weeks, or even months.

[seenoevil II]

How the hell did they pull the frets, then give it back to you like that?

The back bow can also be sanded out. Especially if it's barely perceptible to the naked eye and only truly shows against a straight edge. Say like .0020" of anti-relief.

It's not all that uncommon in necks for them so sit with some back bow with a fully slacked truss rod and no string tension. Heat bending could work, but rebound is a problem.

Another reason to consider sanding instead is to eliminate any other weird humps and dips that may be in such an old neck.

Also, just give the neck a big bend forward. Could be that there's some friction in the trussrod channel that's hanging things up and all it needs is a bit of force to free up. Don't go too hard, but it is a solid hunk of wood, you can lean into it.

But honestly, a luthier should've known/done all of this. Refrets aren't cheap, but all of these neck geometry questions should be included in the price.

That's like an automechanic not changing your tires because you need a wheel alignment. Just odd IMHO

[Steadyriot.]

That's totally salvageable!
This is the perfect time to learn how to do refrets if you're up for the challenge.
If you're not, trying to straighten the neck as others described would probably pull the price for a refret way down.

[ThePearDream]

If it's really just the neck that needs work, then leave the rest alone. The finish looks great as is, so please don't cover that up. FWIW, when I bought my SG-2, the seller thought it had a backbow, but they clearly didn't know how to adjust the trussrod, and it plays fine (it is ready for a re-fret too though). Of course it's impossible to judge your neck over the internet, but I'm inclined to agree with the others, that it is fixable. You just need to find the right person to do the work.

[Chippertheripper]

I’m in the fix camp.
While it’s sitting there with no tension, I’d release anything on the truss rod and see what happens naturally. Orherwise, it’s not a bad fix.
I’d also be leaving the pg and knobs alone, and only replacing what the guitar needs to work.
It’s a cool, old guitar, let’s keep that charm intact.

[ludobag1]

my 2 centz ,if there is a back bow it is surely dependant of the miss of fret, as superaxe said ,yamaha fret tang is really thin and modern are more larger
to conteract the back one solution is to resaw the fret slot a o.5 MM and put modern one at 0.6 MM this way each fret act like a coing (don't know in english but is the steel part to open wood to make it breack)
at first otate all the tithening in the truss , and see how the neck stay ,bowed ,curved ect....
when it is free of truss force you have an idea how it will work with fret in ,too much bowed need to enlarge slot ,to not put more force in ect....
I have refret mine with vintage wire fret and i have to resaw the fret slot too ,i have not sand much the fret board i have more fill the hole with rosewood dust to avoid the dot desappears too and also too much sand the thin fret board

ps you locally luther seems to be a little rought to my taste (i weight my words)
don't see where you are but i think US du to plug wall ?

[antisymmetric]

I'm in agreement with everyone else, it's absolutely repairable. Re the back bow, if it was my guitar I'd release the truss rod and also string the guitar up to see how the neck behaves under tension, then make my decisions about heating/ pressing, leveling, fret slots etc. from that point.

[MayTheFuzzBeWithYou]

I voted for minimal fixes - either fixing the existing or replacing the neck. And all that needs to be done (vibrato arm, electronics).
Color looks great! I love SG2s! But if you want to change the color I‘m not against it - as long as you make the headstock matching!

[msal]

msal, i'll have it but shipping to NZ might kill it

Anyway, that is entirely doable. The fretboard looks nice and when I pulled out my frets I had similar damage. Can all be fixed. See my SG2 restoration thread: https://offsetguitars.com/forums/viewt ... &t=120819

Edit- I forgot my website is down so can't see the photos. Hoping to have it live again late February

The original tang for the SG2 is 0.42mm which I enlarged to 0.6mm as I could not get any 0.42mm fretwire. Check out the fret slots width as your 'luthier' might have already widened the slots.

The (back?) bow in the neck can be fixed with heat and tension- carefully though.

I make these vibrato arms - see my youtube video - so can supply if you like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOKvkbnqVS8

Other than that - GO FOR IT

Wow thanks for all the invaluable info SuperAxe! You basically did exactly what I'm trying to do here. I'll be sure keep an eye out for your photos to show up again. Will definitely be taking you up on any help you can offer with a replacement vibrato arm.

I appreciate all the input everyone! Still parsing through people's advice, but I'm going to try to hash out a plan of attack here: confirm the neck is actually warped with a proper straight edge, set the truss rod to a 'neutral' position (it is currently maxed out clockwise), try to correct any neck bow with heat, move on to a refret. I'm starting to wonder how much of this is just due to the guitar sitting without strings for so long. To that end, I think I'll follow your advice, antisymmetric, and string up the guitar before evaluating.

Anyone know the fretboard radius on these things? Just a bit curious while I wait to get a radius gauge.

[msal]

Oh and here are some photos of the neck pocket. Kind of interesting to me that the serial number on the neck pocket is different from what is stamped into the fretboard. (3412 vs 0696?).





Also a bit concerned about some of the wear on the high E side of the 20-22 frets. Hopefully that won't complicate the refret much.

[andy]

The back bow can also be sanded out. Especially if it's barely perceptible to the naked eye and only truly shows against a straight edge. Say like .0020" of anti-relief.

Another reason to consider sanding instead is to eliminate any other weird humps and dips that may be in such an old neck.

This was common practice when I worked as a tech at a local luthier’s shop. Sand it with a radius block assuming the backbow is crazy. Get a good straight edge and check it out.