Upgrading Tuners

[Jaguar with Reverb]

Bought a 2015 VM Jaguar for my wife. Would like to gussy it up and give it to her as a present. I've already upgraded the bridge and also the trem since the ones on there were dodgy.

Now I am looking at upgrading the tuners. Even with 12's, the strings seem to go out of tune. Anyone have any recommendations on Fender part #'s?
What do the AVRI/AV65 Jaguars use? I assume they aren't Ping.

[alexpigment]

Although I fear the wrath of Larry Mal by saying this (just kidding, Larry - I respect your opinions), your tuners are likely not the problem. Since you mentioned 12s specifically, you probably need to file and lube the nut slots otherwise they're going to be binding. There is a possibility that the bridge and trem may be at play as well, but most likely, it's your nut slots that are the reason for your tuning issues. Buying new tuners will most likely not improve your tuning stability. That's my 2 cents anyway.

One note about the AVRI tuners, I'm pretty sure they won't fit on your guitar without some modifications to the holes in the headstock.

[timtam]

And don't neglect string wrapping technique and string stretching - along with the nut they are the other major factors in strings going out of tune too readily. The jury's out on whether you're really stretching the string per se - I haven't heard a metallurgist's opinion on this. It's obviously more important for nylon strings, but the string manufacturers recommend stretching for all string types (and they presumably do understand some metallurgy) .. eg
http://www.daddario.com/LessonRoomResou ... 91&IType=7

In any case the fact that new strings go flat after you stretch them means that you are taking the slack out of something ... whether it's the string metal or just any slack in the windings on the tuning pegs and elsewhere. A touring tech shows how here (I now use the stretcha gizmo shown) ...
https://youtu.be/Han3_pdBPVE?t=992

[Jaguar with Reverb]

Forgot to mention, the previous owner DID upgrade the nut with bone nut and had his luthier cut the nut slots for .12 guage flatwounds.

So barring the nut, new bridge, and AV trem, the only other hardware to "upgrade" are the tuners. I just think the tuners for the high E and B strings are wonky since they go out of tune after any playing. They're a little finnicky when tuning too.

Is this true the AVRI tuners won't fit the VM Jags/Jazzmasters? I was under the belief the VM line was 'plug and play' per se with AV series parts (except for the 9.5" vs" 7.25" bridge radius)

[Larry Mal]

Well... I guess my wrath will be fairly mild, since I also tend to agree that even the cheapest modern tuners can hold tune very well.

That doesn't mean that they aren't miserable to use, though, compared to other ones.

And as far as proper wrapping technique and stretching the strings, I just blow all that stuff off and use locking tuners. Why deal with it? To me, it's kind of like mastering the proper technique for cranking your Model T's engine over on a cold winter morning.

But maybe you don't care about locking tuners, anyway, it's not like these cost a ton:

https://reverb.com/item/11128190-kluson ... tnc-3805nl

This is the locking kind, state of the art:

https://reverb.com/item/19183211-kluson ... rhlnc-6b-c

But yeah, you'd really need your nut sorted no matter what you do. But your guitar uses the same "vintage type" footprint that a lot of aftermarket tuners use. Plenty to choose from.

Edit: it does seem like you've had your nut worked on.

Other edit: Yes, the AVRI tuners should work just fine on this guitar. That being said, though, the Kluson Revolutions are only $50 for the non locking kind, and they'll be an upgrade over the AVRI tuners if the price is at all close.

[alexpigment]

Well, the B and E are the ones that are "stretched" (I agree about the ambiguous nature of this term) the quickest, so it's probably not that. Proper winding on those style posts are key, but I assume you know what you're doing there.

As for the replaced nut and being cut for 12s, this is not an infallible process, so it's still a possibility in my mind that the strings are binding there. That would make the tuners seem wonky/finicky as you described. Most notably, you will probably be tuning up and the note doesn't change, but you keep tuning and it jumps in pitch.

One quick way to test for this is to tune it to pitch, press the string downward between the nut and the tuners and then let go. Check the pitch on your tuner. If the string is sharp after this, it's your nut.

----

Regarding AVRI tuners not fitting, I may have been incorrect about this. I tried this on another Indonesian Vintage Modified Squier (Tele thinline) and the posts wouldn't fit through the existing bushings. It's very possible that replacing the bushings would have solved this, but it was a quick experiment since I had the tuners lying around and didn't actually need to upgrade. It's also possible that the JM uses different tuners and bushings, although that seems less likely to me.

[pikmin]

You need to enlarge the holes if you want to put American vintage tuners on a Squier .

I just put GOTOH SD91 MGT on my JMJM . The best tuners I never Used . They come with 2 sets of bushings . One that works with Squier and one that works on American Fenders.