2017 AMERICAN PROFESSIONAL JAZZMASTER/JAGUAR

[eligit]

having played 10s on all my other guitars the reason the jag/JM "need" 11s is intrinsic to their design.
The mild break angle of the bridge and the way it "moves" with the trem (as compared to LPs, Teles, Strats, etc etc) is very significant IMO.
the 11s (and 12s even more so) "push down" on the bridge in a Jag/JM in a way that makes it resonate more fully. Frankly for me (at least till I get warmed up) it's a bit harder to play fast/light than on my guitars with 10s but the guitar sounds "right" with 11s in a way it simply did not with 10s. I played 10-49s on it for months before going to 11s. Very significant difference.
On pretty much any other type of bridge design 10s do just fine for me, even 9s occasionally if I want to do those 2.5 half step jimmy page bends. 9s can KILL on a tele. sound and play very nasty (in a good way) with a lot of bite and country bends, etc.
My JM "needs" 11s (with a 54 on the low E actually). Makes a big difference. Guitar just rings in a much more unified and "solid" way, trem "feels" more solid, etc. I assume this is even more the case on the shorter scale jag.

[thecolorwaves]

Perhaps this has been covered elsewhere in the thread, and my apologies if so. Is the bridge in the American Pro Jag identical to the Marr Jag one?

[adamrobertt]

Perhaps this has been covered elsewhere in the thread, and my apologies if so. Is the bridge in the American Pro Jag identical to the Marr Jag one?

I don't think so. The Marrguar has what is essentially a Staytrem bridge. These guitars have a modified Mustang bridge (brass saddles, deeper grooves) but instead of the nylon sleeves being an integrated part of the bridge, they are basically little nylon cups that press into the bridge thimbles and can be removed. Same effect though - the bridge rocks very slightly but is mostly locked in place.

[adamrobertt]

Thanks for the feedback. Tone & Sound is purely subjective for sure.

I have tried heavier Gauge Strings on my Electrics before &, for me, I didn't see any advantage. Particularly for recording.

The heavier gauge Strings with Bassier Sound, IMO, tend to compete with the Bass both Live & Recorded. Except maybe for Lead. I prefer the separation of EQ's between Guitars & Bass.

I don't have a problem with my .10's on either my AV65 Jag or AV65 JM with Strings popping out of Bridge or Tuning issues after having proper Set ups. I do have a Mustang Bridge on my Jag & the Factory Bridge on my JM. I question needing the Mustang Bridge on my Jag after not having problems with my Factory JM Bridge.

Again it's purely Subjective. I was just curious.

Lars

This doesn't make any sense, though. Increasing the string gauge isn't going to magically add additional bass frequencies into the mix. You may percieve more bass due to greater volume and vibrational mass, but it isn't actually adding any bass to the tone.

When you tune your 6th string to an E, it's vibrating at 82.4 Hz, regardless of how thick or thin that string is. It isn't going to "compete" with anything. Also, that's what the tone knobs on your amp are for.

[tammyw]

Perhaps this has been covered elsewhere in the thread, and my apologies if so. Is the bridge in the American Pro Jag identical to the Marr Jag one?

I don't think so. The Marrguar has what is essentially a Staytrem bridge. These guitars have a modified Mustang bridge (brass saddles, deeper grooves) but instead of the nylon sleeves being an integrated part of the bridge, they are basically little nylon cups that press into the bridge thimbles and can be removed. Same effect though - the bridge rocks very slightly but is mostly locked in place.

I'd like to clarify a few things. The similarity between the Marr bridge and Staytrem is only that the posts on both use a larger diameter screw for height adjustment, and they have nylon bushings attached to the posts to keep those screws tight.

The plastic bushings on those designs are not meant to restrict the bridge from rocking (although Staytrem does now offer an option for larger non-rocking bushings). The posts on the Marr bridge are slightly larger diameter at around 0.28" compared to the Staytrem's approximate 0.25", but they still have plenty of room to move (compared to Mastery at about 0.31" which doesn't rock).

The Am Pro bridge posts are about 0.25" diameter, with the traditional smaller diameter screws. The screws are like the AV65's, having a small slot cut lengthwise with a little bit of plastic in it to keep the screws tight. The little nylon cups in the thimbles then do restrict it's movement, but it's a generous slip fit around the posts and the plastic has a bit of give, so they still have a notable amount of play unlike a Mastery which is truly locked in place.

The Marr bridge has like conventional mustang saddles, with traditional spacing, made of some kind of plated steel. The Am Pro saddles are basically the same traditional style but made of plated brass, and sized for a flatter fingerboard radius. The Staytrem bridge has far superior stainless steel saddles with much nicer and deeper grooves, and narrower string spacing.

[Larsongs]

Thanks for the feedback. Tone & Sound is purely subjective for sure.

I have tried heavier Gauge Strings on my Electrics before &, for me, I didn't see any advantage. Particularly for recording.

The heavier gauge Strings with Bassier Sound, IMO, tend to compete with the Bass both Live & Recorded. Except maybe for Lead. I prefer the separation of EQ's between Guitars & Bass.

I don't have a problem with my .10's on either my AV65 Jag or AV65 JM with Strings popping out of Bridge or Tuning issues after having proper Set ups. I do have a Mustang Bridge on my Jag & the Factory Bridge on my JM. I question needing the Mustang Bridge on my Jag after not having problems with my Factory JM Bridge.

Again it's purely Subjective. I was just curious.

Lars

This doesn't make any sense, though. Increasing the string gauge isn't going to magically add additional bass frequencies into the mix. You may percieve more bass due to greater volume and vibrational mass, but it isn't actually adding any bass to the tone.

When you tune your 6th string to an E, it's vibrating at 82.4 Hz, regardless of how thick or thin that string is. It isn't going to "compete" with anything. Also, that's what the tone knobs on your amp are for.

It doesn't?

As previously commented by others, Heavier Gauge do sound different while lighter Gauge have an even different Sound than Heavy Gauge. Some like them & some don't.

I can play 3 different Guitars E String & they all sound like E but they all sound different.

[eligit]

Thanks for the feedback. Tone & Sound is purely subjective for sure.

I have tried heavier Gauge Strings on my Electrics before &, for me, I didn't see any advantage. Particularly for recording.

The heavier gauge Strings with Bassier Sound, IMO, tend to compete with the Bass both Live & Recorded. Except maybe for Lead. I prefer the separation of EQ's between Guitars & Bass.

I don't have a problem with my .10's on either my AV65 Jag or AV65 JM with Strings popping out of Bridge or Tuning issues after having proper Set ups. I do have a Mustang Bridge on my Jag & the Factory Bridge on my JM. I question needing the Mustang Bridge on my Jag after not having problems with my Factory JM Bridge.

Again it's purely Subjective. I was just curious.

Lars

This doesn't make any sense, though. Increasing the string gauge isn't going to magically add additional bass frequencies into the mix. You may percieve more bass due to greater volume and vibrational mass, but it isn't actually adding any bass to the tone.

When you tune your 6th string to an E, it's vibrating at 82.4 Hz, regardless of how thick or thin that string is. It isn't going to "compete" with anything. Also, that's what the tone knobs on your amp are for.

what I noticed when I changed the gage heavier was not more bass (in relation to treble) but definitely more volume, both acoustically and plugged in.
If you listen to somebody like Josh Smith who uses 13s in standard tuning (way too much tension for my fingers) on a tele the sound is not particularly bass heavy. His tone cuts like crazy.

With a JM in particular the strings are less about taste in tone/playability (as i usually think of them on other guitars) but more an intrinsic part OF the guitar. My JM just never seemed to function 100% until i moved up to 11s. Believe me I wish it wasn't true. My calluses would love to play 10s (or even 9s) instead

[crankheart]

Thicker gauges of strings affect the sound of a guitar because they reach their resonant frequency faster and sound louder because of extra tension and the fact that more metal and force spent to play them = more kinetic energy to transfer to wood, pickups etc.

Strings are tuned to the same standard pitches regardless of thickness, so while you're always hearing 82.4hz from an E string, the difference in sound comes from resonance. Thicker strings can sound darker, heavier or more focused than lighter ones on the same guitar because they don't need to vibrate as much to produce the same pitch, this is also why thicker strings mean less chance of buzz, sustain for longer and work better on Jaguars because of the tension difference created by a shorter scale length.

[Jestapali]

Extensive sound test comparison of Jazzmaster and Jaguar American Professional. Pretty cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ7TIpMbr4A

[rhythmjones]

When you tune your 6th string to an E, it's vibrating at 82.4 Hz, regardless of how thick or thin that string is.

False. That's the fundamental tone. Musical instruments sound different because they add overtones to the fundamental. We call that timbre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtone

[eligit]

Thicker gauges of strings affect the sound of a guitar because they reach their resonant frequency faster and sound louder because of extra tension and the fact that more metal and force spent to play them = more kinetic energy to transfer to wood, pickups etc.

Strings are tuned to the same standard pitches regardless of thickness, so while you're always hearing 82.4hz from an E string, the difference in sound comes from resonance. Thicker strings can sound darker, heavier or more focused than lighter ones on the same guitar because they don't need to vibrate as much to produce the same pitch, this is also why thicker strings mean less chance of buzz, sustain for longer and work better on Jaguars because of the tension difference created by a shorter scale length.

at the risk of tedious redundancy it is still worth differentiating between how thicker vs thinner string operate on the average bridge design (which has a much more severe break angle over the bridge) and JM bridge/trem design. Even more than scale (although that's an added element w Jags) it is that mild break angle PLUS the movement of the bridge (even the mastery bridge does move a little, although less than a stock design) that "needs" heavier strings on JMs.
(Putting aside for a moment general principals of string timbre, resonance, and how they interact with scale length and string thickness) The added tension of heavier strings pushes down and "solidifies" the bridge in a way that makes the entire instrument really "ring" fully. I have never found that (for example) a strat "needs" heavier strings to operate in a very satisfactory manner, although some prefer the difference in resonance. The break angle on the strat bridge is 90 degrees, and then the string goes through the block and terminates. The JM is so entirely different on a basic mechanical level that even tho they share the same scale length the way strings interact mechanically with the guitar differs a lot. Hence all the obsessing over different replacement bridges, that device which "pushes the strings down" behind the bridge on those Nash jazzmasters (not a fan of that), moving the bridge placement on some models to increase break angle, etc.

Digression over.
I am curious for those that have bought the new "American Professional" JMs and Jags who have compared various string gages on them...what is the result? The new bridge seems to have some kind of plastic insert to make the bridges more stable i think? This would seem to kind of address some of the "needs heavier strings" issue but not all of them.

[Larsongs]

The point about heavier Gauge Strings on the shorter Neck seems like it makes sense.

Even though I have no problem with the lighter Gauge Strings on mine I think I'll try some heavier Gauge next time & see if it's an improvement. Maybe it will play & sound even better? I'm being open minded.

Thanks,

Lars

[audiopablo]

I have Fender Bullets (maybe silver) 10s on an Am Pro Jag and it sounds good to me. Mine has a replacement nut and is a little funky, but I love playing it, despite its slight wonkiness.

[MattK]

If you doubt string thickness makes a difference to the depth of the note, try tuning your high E down to your low E and compare the sound!

[BoringPostcards]

If you doubt string thickness makes a difference to the depth of the note, try tuning your high E down to your low E and compare the sound!

I don't disagree it makes a difference, but this example is pretty extreme. The difference between a Low and High E compared to two slightly different gauges of Low E is DRASTIC.
Of course it's going to sound like king flub if you tune a high E to low E.