NO Fender winter namm rumors?

[Beyer160]

I'm not so sure any Fender not built in the USA should have the Fender logo on it.

You may be right, but for better or worse that horse left the barn a long, long time ago.

rather than downgrade the Fender name, make better Squiers & elevate Squiers' reputation. That said, there are some good Squiers. Especially the CV Series.

I think it makes sense to have different price/quality tiers- if a $200 Squier was as good as a $1500 Fender, you'd be undercutting your marquee product. That said, I agree that Fender has room for improvement on the QC front.

Regarding Gibson & Epiphone....I don't know anyone who's ashamed of their Epiphone Elitist Casino's & many of their other Guitars. They don't need or want the Gibson logo. Everybody knows they make great Guitars.

Epiphone was an established brand with their own product line when Gibson bought them though, and Epiphone continued to have their own unique products- there never was a Gibson Casino. Although they're now known for making Gibson copies in China, that earlier history is still a part of the Epiphone legacy. Squier doesn't have that, from the beginning their instruments were offshore Fender copies... sometimes great ones, but they were still always a sub-brand of Fender.

Putting the Fender logo on sub quality Guitars does nothing to improve Fenders' name & reputation. Sub Par QC already affects Fender & Squiers bottom line & has potential buyers already looking elsewhere. Like G&L or Boutique.... Quality counts.

The Fender logo still has a LOT of market value though. I do think G&L makes a better product at the same price points, but nobody grows up with posters on their wall of rock gods playing G&Ls. I sometimes wonder what Jimi would have played in the '80s.

Customers shouldn't have to rebuild a new Guitar. IMO that's a huge negative with many Squiers.

I think that's an exaggeration. You may WANT to rebuild a Squier to suit your preferences, but even a $99 Bullet is a playable instrument after the initial setup that all factory-fresh guitars need. Not as nice as a $1500 Fender, but playable at least.

If Fender wants to sell more Fender Guitars......build better Guitars & give Customers what they want at reasonable prices.

That's exactly why Fender started making instruments outside the US to begin with- to be able to offer products at lower price tiers. QC is always going to be an issue in the price/quality matrix- a $99 Bullet is going to have a lot less attention paid to it than a $1K Classic Series Jazzmaster.

[Larsongs]

I'm not so sure any Fender not built in the USA should have the Fender logo on it.

You may be right, but for better or worse that horse left the barn a long, long time ago.

rather than downgrade the Fender name, make better Squiers & elevate Squiers' reputation. That said, there are some good Squiers. Especially the CV Series.

I think it makes sense to have different price/quality tiers- if a $200 Squier was as good as a $1500 Fender, you'd be undercutting your marquee product. That said, I agree that Fender has room for improvement on the QC front.

Regarding Gibson & Epiphone....I don't know anyone who's ashamed of their Epiphone Elitist Casino's & many of their other Guitars. They don't need or want the Gibson logo. Everybody knows they make great Guitars.

Epiphone was an established brand with their own product line when Gibson bought them though, and Epiphone continued to have their own unique products- there never was a Gibson Casino. Although they're now known for making Gibson copies in China, that earlier history is still a part of the Epiphone legacy. Squier doesn't have that, from the beginning their instruments were offshore Fender copies... sometimes great ones, but they were still always a sub-brand of Fender.

Putting the Fender logo on sub quality Guitars does nothing to improve Fenders' name & reputation. Sub Par QC already affects Fender & Squiers bottom line & has potential buyers already looking elsewhere. Like G&L or Boutique.... Quality counts.

The Fender logo still has a LOT of market value though. I do think G&L makes a better product at the same price points, but nobody grows up with posters on their wall of rock gods playing G&Ls. I sometimes wonder what Jimi would have played in the '80s.

Customers shouldn't have to rebuild a new Guitar. IMO that's a huge negative with many Squiers.

I think that's an exaggeration. You may WANT to rebuild a Squier to suit your preferences, but even a $99 Bullet is a playable instrument after the initial setup that all factory-fresh guitars need. Not as nice as a $1500 Fender, but playable at least.

If Fender wants to sell more Fender Guitars......build better Guitars & give Customers what they want at reasonable prices.

That's exactly why Fender started making instruments outside the US to begin with- to be able to offer products at lower price tiers. QC is always going to be an issue in the price/quality matrix- a $99 Bullet is going to have a lot less attention paid to it than a $1K Classic Series Jazzmaster.

In response to your comments,

1. Anything is subject to change.
2. $200 Squiers aren't as good as $1500 Fenders. They just aren't.
3. Squier should be to Fender what Epiphone is to Gibson today. 100 years ago left the Barn a long time ago. Gibson does make an ES330 which is their high end version of the Casino.
4. I haven't played many G&L's but for me the ones I've played ain't got no soul... but that's me.. Give me a good Fender any day.. to each his own..
5. In my experience with Squiers every one needed far far more than the standard Fender factory fresh Set up... you can't be serious.. I've been thru several.
6. agreed.

[ludobag1]

Just look thé insta pics,the blue need mint and matching ,but thé sunburst is Nice

[unreal77]

Matching hs would rock. 5 different colors...

[callum]

Just look thé insta pics,the blue need mint and matching ,but thé sunburst is Nice

Agree 100%

[tealsixtysix]

Just look thé insta pics,the blue need mint and matching ,but thé sunburst is Nice

Somebody at Fender really really likes tort guards right now. They keep showing up on guitars where they're just wrong. Fortunately, that's a cheap and easy fix.

And yeah, 5 custom colors with matching (and appropriate decals for the darker colors) would be a good thing.

I know from things I've seen elsewhere that the new American Original series are basically Thin Skins -- nitro finish, 9.5" radius, 6105 frets. It seems that this line will replace the AVs. I've seen photos and descriptions of 50s and 60s Strats and Teles, a 50s P-Bass, and 60s and 70s J-Basses. (I can post them if y'all want.) Hadn't seen the Jazzmaster until just now.

I hope there's a Jaguar.

[Despot]

To the whole debate on Fender/Squier, here's my two cents for what it's worth.

From a brand value point having opened the door on guitars made outside the US being able to carry the Fender brand, Fender actually did themselves a degree of hurt. Once QC on MIM guitars had gotten to the same level as US made then the incentive to pay more for a US made Fender started to fade.

I learned how to play in the 1990s. Even into the 2000s Squier was a brand for beginner guitar players, MIM guitars were okay (a step up the ladder), but the best quality/top of the line in new Fenders had to be a US made guitar. What's now happened is that good QC (in general within Fender's brands) has led to guitars made under a Fender badge being pretty good everywhere ... and even the Squier level guitars being pretty damn good.

This has removed the incentive for people to 'trade up' to a US made Fender over time - if you have a MIM telecaster and it says Fender on the headstock ... what's to drive you to pay more for a US made Fender if it's not immediately recognisable as a US made Fender.

At this point I could see Fender rebranding so that only their US made line are actually called Fender - expanding Squier to cover all non-US made (or else having another brand as a consolidation of all that's currently badged as Fender but made outside the US).

The aim would be to differentiate Fender's US made guitars from everything else - visually, brand wise and across the board - in order to increase sales of US made Fenders.

I don't know that this is possible at this point ... I mean, as others have said, this is something they could/should have done 10/15 years ago if what they wanted was to drive people towards US made Fenders.

The other option is to move all standard/production models to Mexico or offshore, with Custom Shop models being made in the US. This seems more likely to me - watching as MIM guitars started to work with nitro, and use US made parts usually found only on AVRI/AV models ... I'd always suspected that the push would be to move standard production to Mexico and job losses in the US with an expansion of the Custom Shop for US made guitars.

Neither scenario (on-shoring of Fender guitars in the US again vs move of standard Fender production to Mexico) is particularly good at this point ... but from Fender's position they've got to try something to sell more guitars. The question should be what do they want to sell more of? Fenders or Squiers - where's the higher profit margin? That will probably drive the decision.

[Beyer160]

5. In my experience with Squiers every one needed far far more than the standard Fender factory fresh Set up... you can't be serious.. I've been thru several.

Actually, I am serious. I too have been through several Squiers, and I find I don't do much more to them than I do MIM Fenders to get them in playing shape. Sure the components aren't as good, but none of them had issues that took heroic measure to address. I recently picked up a used MIC Jagmaster that had a wonderful neck- the hardware is serviceable, the electronics are junk, but it plays great. Even MIA Fenders have issues out of the box, the worst nut I've had on any new guitar over $99 was my AVRI Jazzmaster, which seemed like it was cut by a drunken Sasquatch.

What specific issues do you see on Squiers that you don't encounter on Fenders?

Regarding G&Ls, I think on a purely technical level G&Ls are made better than Fenders at the same price point. They aren't Fenders, though- G&Ls have a unique sonic character that is off-putting if you were expecting it to sound like a comparable Fender style. Once I got used to it though, I found them to have a much wider sonic palate than Fenders. To each his own though, I certainly love my Fenders too.

[Larsongs]

5. In my experience with Squiers every one needed far far more than the standard Fender factory fresh Set up... you can't be serious.. I've been thru several.

Actually, I am serious. I too have been through several Squiers, and I find I don't do much more to them than I do MIM Fenders to get them in playing shape. Sure the components aren't as good, but none of them had issues that took heroic measure to address. I recently picked up a used MIC Jagmaster that had a wonderful neck- the hardware is serviceable, the electronics are junk, but it plays great. Even MIA Fenders have issues out of the box, the worst nut I've had on any new guitar over $99 was my AVRI Jazzmaster, which seemed like it was cut by a drunken Sasquatch.

What specific issues do you see on Squiers that you don't encounter on Fenders?

Regarding G&Ls, I think on a purely technical level G&Ls are made better than Fenders at the same price point. They aren't Fenders, though- G&Ls have a unique sonic character that is off-putting if you were expecting it to sound like a comparable Fender style. Once I got used to it though, I found them to have a much wider sonic palate than Fenders. To each his own though, I certainly love my Fenders too.

Interesting you use the words great & junk in the same sentence describing the Indonesian Squiers! My specific experiences are well documented on OSG. You can search if you want. But, I'll refrain from re posting for the sake of the majority. I will say, all the Indonesian Squiers I've had required far more work out of the Box than any Guitars I've ever owned in my life.

[jdr1014]

Late to this thread......

The Instagram link seems to be gone now but am interested to know what it was all about.......

[thatfenderguy]

It was a photo depicting the 60th anniversary and American Original models. No details given. The photo is here on the thread.

[jdr1014]

Thanks but if the photo was the Instagram link posted on page 3, it's gone now. Those models sound interesting......hope there are some new color choices......I think that's been mentioned before lol!

[N0_Camping4U]

Yeah anyone have the pic?

[bacca51]

[amv]

Ugh, so the American Original rumors are true? I heard about that on another forum but it never panned out and I hoped it'd stay that way.

The AV's (and AVRI's) are the greatest guitars Fender has ever made, in my opinion. Totally pure, totally consistent remakes of the guitars that not only made the brand famous, but carry on a kind of "platonic form" of the electric guitar in a way that totally transcends eras and trends.

That's why I've never liked the Thin Skins. To get that close to vintage spec and then go modern(ish) on the fretboard radius in isolation never made sense to me. Just seems totally arbitrary.

Anyway, my main guitars are Jags, and I'm pretty well-stocked (an AV and an AVRI). But I've always wanted an AV Telecaster, and figured I'd have plenty of time to manufacture a "need" for one (ha). Sucks to know these might be sought after and go from the "expensive" to "good lord" price bracket once they're collector's items.

Sad news for vintage nuts like me.