Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

[Beyer160]

Man, next time I'll post about something less controversial like religion or politics. Eventually some cool conversations did get going around both the pro/con sides of the coin, but wow do some folks take their bridge choice personally!

Anyway, here's some random thoughts:

-You don't HAVE to use 13 gauge strings on the stock bridge. It was DESIGNED for those strings, but it's fairly easy to adjust your setup to accommodate whatever strings you want. I used to hybrid pick with 9s on my Jazzmaster to prove it could be done, and I attacked that whammy bar like Neil Young on a coke binge.

-As stated by others, I don't believe that shimming the neck and applying loctite to screws are "modifications," they're just common setup procedures.

-As to why Fender didn't just use the Mustang bridge on Jags/Jazzmasters, I think the reason is that Leo felt the Jag/JM bridge was superior. It allows a much greater range of adjustment- the Mustang bridge went on student models for kids who were having a hard enough time making an open "D" chord, they didn't need to deal with a bridge with a bunch of screws to keep track of. The Jazzmaster and Jaguar were considered the flagship models of the Fender line, and as such they got the high tech bridge. These guitars were hugely popular in the '60s, and I'm not aware of them getting a bad reputation for bridge problems until people started buying them in pawn shops to play in punk bands.

-However... if you have an offset with any other bridge but the stock bridge, and you like it, what's the problem? There's more than one way to skin a cat (and if you feed the rats to the cats and the cats to the rats, you get the cat skins for nothing). I do find that a lot of folks write off the stock bridge without really understanding how to make it work in their application, but that's certainly not true in all cases.

[mackerelmint]

I remember there was this guy in the army called Sanchez who would never trade the stuff in his MREs or leave any of it uneaten because he was convinced that they were somehow scientifically designed to be a perfectly calibrated meal, when they were glorified dog food and candy meant to give you a fuckton of calories, tossed willy nilly into bags. Sweetest guy in the world, but dumb as all get out. I wonder how he's doing, I can't imagine eating 3000 calorie meals multiple times a day did him any favors, just like using a bridge with saddles that don't hold your strings in place if you're a heavy handed player doesn't.

Sometimes I think the "Leo's original designs/decisions are sacrosanct" camp are no different than ol' PVT Sanchez. I mean, once your bridge is set to your neck radius, that's it, job done. I don't think anyone was thinking "student model gets this shittier bridge with fewer points of potential failure". I know Leo was convinced that he was terminally ill at the time and that's why he sold the company. I wonder how hands-on he even was with the mustang. I can say for a fact that leaving the bridge situation as it stood in 1964 was really CBS's decision for as long as they owned the rights. Not hard to draw a line from there to the continuation being a matter of tradition.

[timtam]

I can say for a fact that leaving the bridge situation as it stood in 1964 was really CBS's decision for as long as they owned the rights. Not hard to draw a line from there to the continuation being a matter of tradition.

The fact that the trem/bridge was patented and thus commercially protected presumably played into it.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US2972923A/en

Some contemporary knockoffs did similar things but never quite the same.
https://reverb.com/au/news/a-guide-to-j ... -the-1960s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrato_s ... ing_bridge

[MiHu]

I was curious and bought a staytrem bridge for my AV65 Jag. I really liked how the treble strings sounded more 'stable', but overall the sound of the guitar lost its magic for me with the staytrem. Especially the bass strings sounded somehow dull and uninspiring to me. With the stock bridge and 12 gauge strings the guitar has this great responsiveness/airiness/sponginess that disappeared with the staytrem.

So the staytrem stays in the drawer and the original bridge has been back on my guitar for the last three years. I have never tried the mastery bridge, though.

To each their own but people shouldn't suggest that a straytrem is automatically better. Its different and there is a chance that you might loose some qualities you like about the guitar by changing the bridge.

[George L]

With the stock bridge and 12 gauge strings the guitar has this great responsiveness/airiness/sponginess that disappeared with the staytrem.

Different materials resonate differently. Stainless steel will affect your tone very slightly.
I have two Jaguars with Staytrem none of them lost overtones/responsiveness/airiness/sponginess and personally I believe that Stainless steel produces a very harmonically pleasing tone (i use 0.11 gauge)

To each their own but people shouldn't suggest that a straytrem is automatically better.

As i said before the stock bridge works fine if you know how it works but for me Staytrem is more solid, more functional, with no annoying buzzes and the grooves are deep enough to hold the strings in place

[MiHu]

With the stock bridge and 12 gauge strings the guitar has this great responsiveness/airiness/sponginess that disappeared with the staytrem.

Different materials resonate differently. Stainless steel will affect your tone very slightly.
I have two Jaguars with Staytrem none of them lost overtones/responsiveness/airiness/sponginess and personally I believe that Stainless steel produces a very harmonically pleasing tone (i use 0.11 gauge)

To each their own but people shouldn't suggest that a straytrem is automatically better.

As i said before the stock bridge works fine if you know how it works but for me Staytrem is more solid, more functional, with no annoying buzzes and the grooves are deep enough to hold the strings in place

I was wondering what makes the tonal difference and think maybe the more solid bridge posts of the staytrem contribute to that, too. I guess I get a specific response from the combination of TI 0.12 flats and the stock bridge that does something for me and that I don't get from the staytrem bridge. Taste, playing styles and type of strings are probably just some of the many variables that determine which bridge you prefer.

[George L]

Taste, playing styles and type of strings are probably just some of the many variables that determine which bridge you prefer.

I Agree.
In the end, tone is always subjective.

[The Dead Ranch Hands]

I've found if you raise the saddles up so the screws aren't poking through the holes, and then adjust string height only using the bridge post screws, it's very stable, even without the use of thread lock.

[BoringPostcards]

Sometimes I think the "Leo's original designs/decisions are sacrosanct" camp are no different than ol' PVT Sanchez. I mean, once your bridge is set to your neck radius, that's it, job done. I don't think anyone was thinking "student model gets this shittier bridge with fewer points of potential failure". I know Leo was convinced that he was terminally ill at the time and that's why he sold the company. I wonder how hands-on he even was with the mustang. I can say for a fact that leaving the bridge situation as it stood in 1964 was really CBS's decision for as long as they owned the rights. Not hard to draw a line from there to the continuation being a matter of tradition.

If Leo had kept the company, he most certainly would have remedied the Jazzmaster bridge. He didn't stop designing bridges, as we know there are dozens of bridge prototypes for various guitars and basses at G&L.

edit: a word

[Beyer160]

I guess the flip side to the "Leo's designs must never be altered in any way" camp is the "nothing stock is good enough" crowd. You know, the guys on the other forums who buy $4K guitars and immediately start shopping for $400 boutique pickups to go in them before the guitar even arrives because everyone knows, pricy boutique pickups are the best and stock pickups suck. As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

My first offset was a JM66B MIJ Jazzmaster. The thing was fucking gorgeous, but as soon as I tuned it up and strummed my first chord, things went south quick. The strings all jumped out of the bridge slots and it sounded like someone had just thrown a truckload of glass in a cement mixer. Now I could have just returned the guitar and bought a Tele instead, but I decided to persevere. After a few minutes of Googling, I discovered the lost arts of offset bridge setup and the fact that you kinda need to use the knobs with Jazzmasters. This solved the first problem and ameliorated the second. Adjusting the pickup height and rolling off the tone did not completely cure the sonic deficiencies of the stock MIJ pickups, though. So I bought some aftermarket pickups, secure in the knowledge that I'd done all I could to make the stock equipment work. The new pickups (Pickup Wizard) were a marked improvement.

I'm not saying the stock bridge is always the perfect solution for every player in all situations, but I do think the common wisdom that it's a piece of junk that must always be replaced is based in ignorance.

[mackerelmint]

Sometimes I think the "Leo's original designs/decisions are sacrosanct" camp are no different than ol' PVT Sanchez. I mean, once your bridge is set to your neck radius, that's it, job done. I don't think anyone was thinking "student model gets this shittier bridge with fewer points of potential failure". I know Leo was convinced that he was terminally ill at the time and that's why he sold the company. I wonder how hands-on he even was with the mustang. I can say for a fact that leaving the bridge situation as it stood in 1964 was really CBS's decision for as long as they owned the rights. Not hard to draw a line from there to the continuation being a matter of tradition.

If Leo had kept the company, he most certainly would have remedied the Jazzmaster bridge. He didn't stop designing bridges, as we know there are dozens of bridge prototypes for various guitars and basses at G&L.

edit: a word

I'm inclined to agree, it's not like he left the strat trem unchanged in his post-fender life, or anything else really. Dude was into progress. He wasn't a guitarist, he was a designer and he valued innovation and evolution. I think when the mustang was new, the new guitar got the new, better bridge, and that had it been left in his hands, the other floating offsets would have as well. He didn't seem to consider his designs "holy" or anything.

[mackerelmint]

I hate those grub screws, I really do. I had one on my old (and missed) Valley Arts bass that constantly went "phhhht" and let its side of the A string saddle vibrate it loose and there was no amount of messing with it that solved the problem (though I didn't use locktite). I got a new grub screw and it held up fine while I still had the bass. Moral of that story was that those dudes can apparently wear out. Some people don't like them poking their hand, which is understandable if mostly addressable. I prefer not to think about them and just use bridges what don't have them in the first place.

/Rooted in ignorance, apparently

Edit: I'd probably try a stock bridge if I were making a 12 string. That seems reasonable to me, to reuse that bridge and get a faction plate and call it good. Way cheaper to convert than to get a whole new body and mess with some other deal that takes a special rout. Those Gotohs are nice, but I'm cheap, and never quite being in perfect tune/intonation is part of why 12 strings sound good in the first place.

[JagInTheBag]

"the original design is fine as long as you know how it works"

"as long as you know how it works"

Way to make the poll unbiased.

Don't you know that is all the rage? There is nothing objectively good or bad anymore. This question is better stated- "Are you part of my groupthink tribe, or are you an ignorant infidel, unworthy of your Fender offset guitar?"

[Kiso]

The OP definitely could have expressed itself better, however. I'm very (not) surprised to see such hate. Perhaps it was intentionally biased just to see whether the people that can make the original bridge work still preferthe upgrades.

Given the name of the forum, this seems like the more relevant question imo... However to answer the question sir OP, I certainly prefer the original bridge due to the option of having wider string spacing (and the wobbling of course). I haven't tried a mustang bridge But I'd imagine that I would shim the low e. In other words, I still think I prefer the original.

[Kurpak]

I bought a staytrem bridge a while back but never got around to installing it until today. Not a fan of the narrower spacing right off the bat. Immediately removed it and put the original bridge back on