What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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valley_parade
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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by valley_parade » Tue May 28, 2019 4:19 am

I wonder if Strat Talk and TDPRI have these threads once every few weeks :freako:

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by 601210 » Tue May 28, 2019 4:51 am

valley_parade wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:19 am
I wonder if Strat Talk and TDPRI have these threads once every few weeks :freako:
If TDPRI is anything like it was last time I was there, they're probably still arguing about Esquires.

And cowboy hats.

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by soggy mittens » Tue May 28, 2019 6:23 am

Sound:-
Scale
Pickups (single coils)
Floating trem (trad. placement only)
1meg/33
Offset body

everything else is a variation /end :)
If OSG has tort me anything...

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by ThePearDream » Tue May 28, 2019 6:32 am

If it has a Jazzmaster shaped body and at least half of the other defining characteristics from vintage Jazzmasters, then it is a Jazzmaster. Regardless of whether these are features you care about or not. Most of those characteristics have been mentioned here already, but not all in one spot.

In addition to the body shape, there's:
- pickguard shape
- rhythm circuit
- 25.5" scale
- jazzmaster pickups
- jazzmaster vibrato with floating bridge
- headstock profile

(minor details like fretboard radius & pot/cap values are irrelevant because even in vintage examples there is wide variation)

The Offset Telecaster has the shape, but only one additional feature (scale), therefore is not a Jazzmaster.
The American Performer has the shape, pickguard, scale, pickups, and headstock, therefore it is a Jazzmaster.
The Player Jazzmaster has the shape, pickguard, scale, and headstock and is just barely a Jazzmaster
The Jim Root has the shape, scale and headstock, so is only a Jazzmaster because Fender said so.
The Jazz Telecaster does not have the body shape, so can never be a Jazzmaster, regardless of the other features.

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by loveinathens » Tue May 28, 2019 12:03 pm

ThePearDream wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 6:32 am
If it has a Jazzmaster shaped body and at least half of the other defining characteristics from vintage Jazzmasters, then it is a Jazzmaster. Regardless of whether these are features you care about or not. Most of those characteristics have been mentioned here already, but not all in one spot.

In addition to the body shape, there's:
- pickguard shape
- rhythm circuit
- 25.5" scale
- jazzmaster pickups
- jazzmaster vibrato with floating bridge
- headstock profile

(minor details like fretboard radius & pot/cap values are irrelevant because even in vintage examples there is wide variation)

The Offset Telecaster has the shape, but only one additional feature (scale), therefore is not a Jazzmaster.
The American Performer has the shape, pickguard, scale, pickups, and headstock, therefore it is a Jazzmaster.
The Player Jazzmaster has the shape, pickguard, scale, and headstock and is just barely a Jazzmaster
The Jim Root has the shape, scale and headstock, so is only a Jazzmaster because Fender said so.
The Jazz Telecaster does not have the body shape, so can never be a Jazzmaster, regardless of the other features.
This is p reasonable. I dig it!

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by windmill » Tue May 28, 2019 1:53 pm

valley_parade wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:19 am
I wonder if Strat Talk and TDPRI have these threads once every few weeks :freako:
It is enjoyable to see OSG indulge in a bit of philosophising occasionally, using the Socratic method, as described by Plato, to determine the essence of things.

The example given by Plato is Socrates asking someone to define a cup, what gives a cup its "cupness" ?

It is interesting to that we are still searching to understand the world we live in, just as the the ancient Greeks and all those before them sought the same answers.

Please carry on, you lot may be on the way to discovering an eternal truth.

:)

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by soggy mittens » Tue May 28, 2019 6:14 pm

..that the jazzmaster is just an object of desire even though it is a tool to transform human emotion into vibrational energy that pleases the source consciousness the most out of any other tool of vibrational energy...........................well other than the human voice? x) /jest
If OSG has tort me anything...

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by sirspens » Wed May 29, 2019 6:42 pm

601210 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:14 am
You guys think we have it bad; if you take what Fender says at face value, both these things are Starcasters:

Image

Image
One of these guitars is an offset. I'm not going to say which one, though.

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by sirspens » Wed May 29, 2019 6:45 pm

valley_parade wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:19 am
I wonder if Strat Talk and TDPRI have these threads once every few weeks :freako:
What is a Stratocaster? I mean, like... what isn't a Stratocaster?

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by Sanguine » Thu May 30, 2019 11:45 pm

Scarabeus wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 3:57 pm
For the record, I generally refer to my J Mascis JM as my “JMJM” or my “Mascis” when I’m speaking to people who know guitars .... and I refer to it as my “Jazzmaster” when talking to people who don’t really know guitars, in order to keep it simple and to educate them as to the “type” of guitar it is.
I am new to this forum but has anyone ever called J. Mascis model a "Jazzmascis"? ;D

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by BoringPostcards » Fri May 31, 2019 2:34 am

Sanguine wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:45 pm
Scarabeus wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 3:57 pm
For the record, I generally refer to my J Mascis JM as my “JMJM” or my “Mascis” when I’m speaking to people who know guitars .... and I refer to it as my “Jazzmaster” when talking to people who don’t really know guitars, in order to keep it simple and to educate them as to the “type” of guitar it is.
I am new to this forum but has anyone ever called J. Mascis model a "Jazzmascis"? ;D
LOL. I had the purple Fender one for years and not once did I ever think of that.
Gotta say, I wish I did.
"Can you please pass me a jug of winter light?" - Lee Ranaldo 2000
Det er mig der holder træerne sammen.

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by phutyle » Fri May 31, 2019 2:56 am

windmill wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 1:53 pm
It is enjoyable to see OSG indulge in a bit of philosophising occasionally, using the Socratic method, as described by Plato, to determine the essence of things.

The example given by Plato is Socrates asking someone to define a cup, what gives a cup its "cupness" ?

It is interesting to that we are still searching to understand the world we live in, just as the the ancient Greeks and all those before them sought the same answers.

Please carry on, you lot may be on the way to discovering an eternal truth.

:)
The Greek Cynic* philosopher Diogenes of Sinope once attended a lecture by Plato on the classification of things. Plato authoritatively classified man as “a featherless biped”.

Diogenes fetched a plucked chicken and mockingly declared “Behold, Plato’s man!”

The point I get from this, other than that Diogenes used to just enjoy pissing Plato off, is that all classifications - while sometimes useful in a general sense - are flawed human constructs with fuzzy edges that are open to interpretation and reinterpretation, and governed by subjective perspective. That goes for everything including species, languages, instruments and musical genres (*even nationalities and schools of philosophy).

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by 601210 » Fri May 31, 2019 3:35 am

BoringPostcards wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 2:34 am
Sanguine wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:45 pm
Scarabeus wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 3:57 pm
For the record, I generally refer to my J Mascis JM as my “JMJM” or my “Mascis” when I’m speaking to people who know guitars .... and I refer to it as my “Jazzmaster” when talking to people who don’t really know guitars, in order to keep it simple and to educate them as to the “type” of guitar it is.
I am new to this forum but has anyone ever called J. Mascis model a "Jazzmascis"? ;D
LOL. I had the purple Fender one for years and not once did I ever think of that.
Gotta say, I wish I did.
A small benefit of the purple Fender Mascises not being as popular is that we don't have to differentiate them with SQJMJM and MIJJMJM.

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by JVG » Fri May 31, 2019 10:16 am

It’s a shame* that Fender never made a HM Jazzmaster in the ‘80s, complete with fluoro paint job, locking nut and Floyd Rose vibrato.

I’m sure someone modded theirs like this anyway!

Cheers,
J.

* it’s actually not a shame

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by windmill » Fri May 31, 2019 2:05 pm

Sanguine wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:45 pm

I am new to this forum but has anyone ever called J. Mascis model a "Jazzmascis"? ;D

Welcome to the OSG forum Sanguine

Yours is just the type of thinking we need here.

Excellent !


:)

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