What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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Mechanical Birds
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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by Mechanical Birds » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:20 am

601210 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:14 am
You guys think we have it bad; if you take what Fender says at face value, both these things are Starcasters:

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Thank you

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by zeero9 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:18 am

According to Fender, which is the only definition that matters, body and headstock. That’s all, the rest are just opinions.

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by mbene085 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:01 am

zeero9 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:18 am
According to Fender, which is the only definition that matters, body and headstock. That’s all, the rest are just opinions.
People are just having fun.

Besides, it's not actually that simple. Case in point: a Telecaster body with a Strat headstock is still a Telecaster, but a Jazzmaster body with a Telecaster headstock is...also a Telecaster.

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So, is a Telecaster a dominant gene, like brown eyes? Doesn't matter whether it's 3/4 Jazzmaster or 1/4 strat, if there's any amount of Tele DNA in there, it's just a tele?

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by Squareball » Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:46 am

mbene085 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:01 am
zeero9 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:18 am
According to Fender, which is the only definition that matters, body and headstock. That’s all, the rest are just opinions.
People are just having fun.

Besides, it's not actually that simple. Case in point: a Telecaster body with a Strat headstock is still a Telecaster, but a Jazzmaster body with a Telecaster headstock is...also a Telecaster....
Exactly! People ARE just having fun. Plus, I don't think we can entirely trust Fender on this one.( ;) )
If it's down to what's on the headstock then what about the 'squier vintage modified telecaster special'? - A telecaster with a jazz master pick up in the neck position and a Jazzmaster neck that even says jazzmaster on the headstock...
Image

Regarding the Offset telecaster, Im sure if Fender could have secured the patent for "Telemaster" then it would have been called exactly that.
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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by 601210 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:59 am

Squareball wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:46 am
'squier vintage modified telecaster special'

I didn't know this was a thing. It's kind of funny to see a modern-day example of Fender just trying to "creatively "flog old stock, like the Swinger or Maverick.

They didn't even change the decals :D

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by mbene085 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:17 am

That kind of supports my hypothesis that telecasters are a dominant trait. Even if you have a Jazzmaster neck that says "Jazzmaster" on it, it's still a Telecaster!

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by Maggieo » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:52 am

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:17 am
That kind of supports my hypothesis that telecasters are a dominant trait. Even if you have a Jazzmaster neck that says "Jazzmaster" on it, it's still a Telecaster!
No! It's an ESQUIRE, because it was the first, and, like the Highlander, there can be only one. :P
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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by 601210 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:57 am

Maggieo wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:52 am
mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:17 am
That kind of supports my hypothesis that telecasters are a dominant trait. Even if you have a Jazzmaster neck that says "Jazzmaster" on it, it's still a Telecaster!
No! It's an ESQUIRE, because it was the first, and, like the Highlander, there can be only one. :P
The funny thing is I've seen Bruce Springsteen referenced several times as an Esquire player, even though his Esquire had a neck pickup added very early on...

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by mbene085 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:20 am

601210 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:57 am
Maggieo wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:52 am
mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:17 am
That kind of supports my hypothesis that telecasters are a dominant trait. Even if you have a Jazzmaster neck that says "Jazzmaster" on it, it's still a Telecaster!
No! It's an ESQUIRE, because it was the first, and, like the Highlander, there can be only one. :P
The funny thing is I've seen Bruce Springsteen referenced several times as an Esquire player, even though his Esquire had a neck pickup added very early on...
Now this is getting to the core philosophical issues at play.

Is a musicmaster with a bridge pickup a duo-sonic? Or is it a mustang? Is the vibrato a core trait of mustangness? Few of the modern ones have had them. So what separates a duosonic from a mustang anymore? And which one is a musicmaster turned into (or not) by adding the pickup?

Do even esquires suffer the dominant-Tele fate of being overwritten by any feature of tele-ness, like having a neck pickup added?

These are the hard-hitting questions we are tackling here.

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by Maggieo » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:34 am

601210 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:57 am
Maggieo wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:52 am
mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:17 am
That kind of supports my hypothesis that telecasters are a dominant trait. Even if you have a Jazzmaster neck that says "Jazzmaster" on it, it's still a Telecaster!
No! It's an ESQUIRE, because it was the first, and, like the Highlander, there can be only one. :P
The funny thing is I've seen Bruce Springsteen referenced several times as an Esquire player, even though his Esquire had a neck pickup added very early on...
Like my old one:

Image
Modified Fender Esquire, October, 2009 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr

Image
Fender Esquire With Lollar Pickups, November 17, 2015 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
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I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by 601210 » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:35 am

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:20 am
Is a musicmaster with a bridge pickup a duo-sonic? Or is it a mustang? Is the vibrato a core trait of mustangness? Few of the modern ones have had them. So what separates a duosonic from a mustang anymore? And which one is a musicmaster turned into (or not) by adding the pickup?
I'm pretty sure that for current Fender, Duo Sonic = Duo Sonic I and Mustang = Offset body.

I mean, this: https://shop.fender.com/en-US/electric- ... 42506.html

is really waaaaay more of a Duo Sonic II than a Mustang...

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by sirspens » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Squareball wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:46 am
If it's down to what's on the headstock then what about the 'squier vintage modified telecaster special'? - A telecaster with a jazz master pick up in the neck position and a Jazzmaster neck that even says jazzmaster on the headstock...
Image
Okay... Let's shut it all down and go home. This is craziness. Is there an exploding head emoticon?

(What really gets me is that to have the Telecaster heal on that neck, they had to special make those necks, so they weren't just laying around left over with a Jazzmaster decal!)

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by JSutter » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:42 pm

We can guess all we want, but Fender will do whatever. It's just marketing.

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by windmill » Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:32 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:20 am

Now this is getting to the core philosophical issues at play.

Is a musicmaster with a bridge pickup a duo-sonic? Or is it a mustang? Is the vibrato a core trait of mustangness? Few of the modern ones have had them. So what separates a duosonic from a mustang anymore? And which one is a musicmaster turned into (or not) by adding the pickup?

Do even esquires suffer the dominant-Tele fate of being overwritten by any feature of tele-ness, like having a neck pickup added?

These are the hard-hitting questions we are tackling here.
:wtf:

Wow, I think i'm in over my head here.

I'll just have to wait here till you guys have sorted it out.

:)

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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis

Post by Squareball » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:14 am

sirspens wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:14 pm
Squareball wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:46 am
If it's down to what's on the headstock then what about the 'squier vintage modified telecaster special'? - A telecaster with a jazz master pick up in the neck position and a Jazzmaster neck that even says jazzmaster on the headstock...
Image
Okay... Let's shut it all down and go home. This is craziness. Is there an exploding head emoticon?

(What really gets me is that to have the Telecaster heal on that neck, they had to special make those necks, so they weren't just laying around left over with a Jazzmaster decal!)
Image

;D

I actually feel a bit sorry for this guitar. It must have an identity complex. I've often seen them listed as jazzmasters in the jazzmaster section in classifieds. Like the owners didn't even know what they had bought. :(
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