Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:20 am
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What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
https://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=112606
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Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:18 am
According to Fender, which is the only definition that matters, body and headstock. That’s all, the rest are just opinions.
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:01 am
People are just having fun.
Besides, it's not actually that simple. Case in point: a Telecaster body with a Strat headstock is still a Telecaster, but a Jazzmaster body with a Telecaster headstock is...also a Telecaster.
So, is a Telecaster a dominant gene, like brown eyes? Doesn't matter whether it's 3/4 Jazzmaster or 1/4 strat, if there's any amount of Tele DNA in there, it's just a tele?
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:46 am
Exactly! People ARE just having fun. Plus, I don't think we can entirely trust Fender on this one.(
) If it's down to what's on the headstock then what about the 'squier vintage modified telecaster special'? - A telecaster with a jazz master pick up in the neck position and a Jazzmaster neck that even says jazzmaster on the headstock...
Regarding the Offset telecaster, Im sure if Fender could have secured the patent for "Telemaster" then it would have been called exactly that.
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:59 am
I didn't know this was a thing. It's kind of funny to see a modern-day example of Fender just trying to "creatively "flog old stock, like the Swinger or Maverick.
They didn't even change the decals
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:17 am
That kind of supports my hypothesis that telecasters are a dominant trait. Even if you have a Jazzmaster neck that says "Jazzmaster" on it, it's still a Telecaster!
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:52 am
No! It's an ESQUIRE, because it was the first, and, like the Highlander, there can be only one.
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:57 am
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:20 am
Now this is getting to the core philosophical issues at play.601210 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:57 amThe funny thing is I've seen Bruce Springsteen referenced several times as an Esquire player, even though his Esquire had a neck pickup added very early on...
Is a musicmaster with a bridge pickup a duo-sonic? Or is it a mustang? Is the vibrato a core trait of mustangness? Few of the modern ones have had them. So what separates a duosonic from a mustang anymore? And which one is a musicmaster turned into (or not) by adding the pickup?
Do even esquires suffer the dominant-Tele fate of being overwritten by any feature of tele-ness, like having a neck pickup added?
These are the hard-hitting questions we are tackling here.
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:34 am
Like my old one:601210 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:57 amThe funny thing is I've seen Bruce Springsteen referenced several times as an Esquire player, even though his Esquire had a neck pickup added very early on...
Modified Fender Esquire, October, 2009 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
Fender Esquire With Lollar Pickups, November 17, 2015 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:35 am
I'm pretty sure that for current Fender, Duo Sonic = Duo Sonic I and Mustang = Offset body.mbene085 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:20 amIs a musicmaster with a bridge pickup a duo-sonic? Or is it a mustang? Is the vibrato a core trait of mustangness? Few of the modern ones have had them. So what separates a duosonic from a mustang anymore? And which one is a musicmaster turned into (or not) by adding the pickup?
I mean, this: https://shop.fender.com/en-US/electric- ... 42506.html
is really waaaaay more of a Duo Sonic II than a Mustang...
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:14 pm
Okay... Let's shut it all down and go home. This is craziness. Is there an exploding head emoticon?Squareball wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:46 amIf it's down to what's on the headstock then what about the 'squier vintage modified telecaster special'? - A telecaster with a jazz master pick up in the neck position and a Jazzmaster neck that even says jazzmaster on the headstock...
(What really gets me is that to have the Telecaster heal on that neck, they had to special make those necks, so they weren't just laying around left over with a Jazzmaster decal!)
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:42 pm
We can guess all we want, but Fender will do whatever. It's just marketing.
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:32 pm
mbene085 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:20 am
Now this is getting to the core philosophical issues at play.
Is a musicmaster with a bridge pickup a duo-sonic? Or is it a mustang? Is the vibrato a core trait of mustangness? Few of the modern ones have had them. So what separates a duosonic from a mustang anymore? And which one is a musicmaster turned into (or not) by adding the pickup?
Do even esquires suffer the dominant-Tele fate of being overwritten by any feature of tele-ness, like having a neck pickup added?
These are the hard-hitting questions we are tackling here.
Wow, I think i'm in over my head here.
I'll just have to wait here till you guys have sorted it out.
Re: What defines a Jazzmaster: A Hypothesis
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:14 am
sirspens wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:14 pmOkay... Let's shut it all down and go home. This is craziness. Is there an exploding head emoticon?Squareball wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:46 amIf it's down to what's on the headstock then what about the 'squier vintage modified telecaster special'? - A telecaster with a jazz master pick up in the neck position and a Jazzmaster neck that even says jazzmaster on the headstock...
(What really gets me is that to have the Telecaster heal on that neck, they had to special make those necks, so they weren't just laying around left over with a Jazzmaster decal!)
I actually feel a bit sorry for this guitar. It must have an identity complex. I've often seen them listed as jazzmasters in the jazzmaster section in classifieds. Like the owners didn't even know what they had bought.
