Any MIJ experts wanna drop some knowledge?

[Mechanical Birds]

I know the broad strokes of MIJ guitars - the factory that produced them means more than the name on the headstock, there weren’t really a ton of lawsuits, Fender Japan history, etc. I’m curious though if anyone could maybe post a ranked list of the typically best factories/periods/actual brand names.

There’s a black CBS style Jazz Bass on reverb for way, way too much money, but I’m still beyond curious to understand any of this stuff better than I do now. Where were the Ibanez Fender copies made? Where do said guitars rank in terms of prestige and quality compared to, say, Greco or Burny or Aria or whatever? There was an identical bass at my pawn shop but it was a burst and was branded as an Aria - otherwise was spot on, complete with the weird truss cover that I’ve never seen on any real Fenders before

Thanks in advance!

*EDIT - I’m specifically curious about the Gibson copies - Les Pauls and SGs I guess? I see firebirds and stuff but they’re way more rare.

I’m just trying to find out what the cheapest, but still good and ‘get you there’ kinda guitar is. Is it a specific Greco or Burny or Ibanez or what?

[MattK]

A bit rich for me to pop up and say oh hi, I'm an expert ... but I do know some of the answers to your questions.
The Ibanez Fender copies were made at Fujigen for the most part - maybe some of the early ones were made at Matsumoku but I've not heard of them. Grecos started out at Matsumoku and switched to Fujigen around 1974, and have been a Fujigen house brand every since. Of course the first 15 years of Fender Japan were also Fujigen. I have a collection of Grecos, Fender Japan and a couple of Ibanez spanning 1974 to 2014, all Fujigen, all extremely high standard of instruments which I love. Here are a few of them:

The Fender copies with the truss rod covers tend to be Matsumoku and other manufacturers - depends on the branding. Often really good, sometimes great, sometimes not so good. The hardware and electrics tend to be the weak points of course. Depending on the price you can get a nice body and neck with a bit of history, then upgrade it to taste. Anything more specific, I'd need to see the instrument!

[Mechanical Birds]

Hell yeah thank you!

I’ve always really liked those 70s Ibanez things that were pretty much Fender copies - the Kevin Shields (2236 I think it was called?) sticking out a little more as it’s own thing - have always looked cool to me. I made the thread after seeing this sick CBS Jazz Bass copy in black with a matching headstock branded Ibanez. It’s like $900 on reverb so I’m not trying to buy it, I just don’t know anything about them.

I go through a phase of wanting to get a nice Greco Les Paul a few times a year but have yet to find the right looking one for the right price and that’ll probably never happen.

I found one of those cool Ibanez Les Pauls with the mandolin headstock for like $350 but a previous owner had scratched a carving of a naked woman into the back and cut a fucking belly contour into it so no way

[MattK]

Just as a rule of thumb all of the Fujigen stuff tends to be great (with the exception of dodgy hardware / pickups on a few). When there are numbers in the model name of the guitar, they tend to refer to hundreds of yen, e.g. a Greco SE450 Strat copy was originally priced at 45 000 yen, an EG600 would have been 60 000. Rates have varied over the years but they tend to sell for 2/3 the US dollar equivalent if Greco is on the headstock, but the Les Pauls are a bit more complex - Super Real etc series (nitro lacquer etc) and the pickups make a huge difference to price - Maxon Dry Z's being the equivalent of a PAF in commanding top dollar. Also the weight of Greco Les Pauls varies hugely with price, an EG800 usually being way lighter than an EG600 for example. Most everything with Ibanez on it will be very well built.

[jvin248]

.

Here are a few things I've picked up:

-MIJs are sought after, prices are up, and so are the fakes.
-Variations in factory options, factories, and builds are so high that it is more often difficult to tell the fakes from the real.
-MIJs were amazing 'back in the day' because the domestics were so often poorly made. Domestics today are much much higher quality then back then.
-Many surviving MIJs are 'great players' because owners over time took them to a good local guitar tech to make them better so the high quality reflects more the post-factory work.
-MIJs upward price is at a high, buying now will make you wait years before you get any additional appreciation.

If you are looking for a great player the recipe is buy something like a modern Fender MIM and take it to 'your guy' for fretwork and complete setup.
If you are chasing 'an investment' instrument then your risks are high.

.

[robroe]

In 1995 that factory created the finest guitar neck ever made. The first run jagstang neck. I am lucky enough to be a single owner of this thing since then and it's been the standard that I judge every neck on every guitar in every shop that I go in. Some have come close but none have ever matched it. Including every American made neck I have ever picked up

[Francer]

In 1995 that factory created the finest guitar neck ever made. The first run jagstang neck. I am lucky enough to be a single owner of this thing since then and it's been the standard that I judge every neck on every guitar in every shop that I go in. Some have come close but none have ever matched it. Including every American made neck I have ever picked up

I love Fender Japan necks too, my 89 MIJ strat has a lovely neck, probably my favourite ever, and I’ve just picked up a CIJ neck for my AV65 JM which is pretty nice. To be fair this was purely for looks, the original AV65 neck was terrific but I’m one of the people who is not really a fan of binding, and I just fancied a change of look.

And In the spirit of adding more knowledge to the forum, the neck heel on the CIJ (Q serial), was a perfect fit on a US body at the heel. However, it is narrower than my MIJ (E serial) strat heel which will not fit a US body, I had read that all Fender Japan neck heels were wider, but I can state for a fact that this is not true, but not sure when they changed - when MIJ went to CIJ perhaps?

[MattK]

-Many surviving MIJs are 'great players' because owners over time took them to a good local guitar tech to make them better so the high quality reflects more the post-factory work.If you are looking for a great player the recipe is buy something like a modern Fender MIM and take it to 'your guy' for fretwork and complete setup.

I don't really agree - the great ones were great from the factory and the duff ones were always cheap. All my Grecos are stock, and superb instruments, including the pickups. My '83 Squier Tele Custom is stock apart from the bridge pickup and changes to pot values, and the stock pickups on my '82 Squier JV Strat are great - but not as great as the Greco strat from the same factory a few years before.
And they're not expensive if you know what you're looking for - this one-off '74 Greco Tele Deluxe was AUD $650 (under $US 450) a few months ago, and it's a killer. I'll put it up against any MIM ever made.

[MechaBulletBill]

-Many surviving MIJs are 'great players' because owners over time took them to a good local guitar tech to make them better so the high quality reflects more the post-factory work

uhhh my 80s Tokai Silver Star was bottom-of-the-range, 5 piece body and there was still plastic wrap under the knobs when I got it in 2016/17 and - with new tuners, vibrato and pickups - is one of the best strats out there

[mcatano]

-Many surviving MIJs are 'great players' because owners over time took them to a good local guitar tech to make them better so the high quality reflects more the post-factory work

uhhh my 80s Tokai Silver Star was bottom-of-the-range, 5 piece body and there was still plastic wrap under the knobs when I got it in 2016/17 and - with new tuners, vibrato and pickups - is one of the best strats out there

The “uhhh” at the front of this makes it sound like you’re contradicting his statement but you’re actually agreeing with him? I am confuse.

[Mechanical Birds]

-Many surviving MIJs are 'great players' because owners over time took them to a good local guitar tech to make them better so the high quality reflects more the post-factory work.If you are looking for a great player the recipe is buy something like a modern Fender MIM and take it to 'your guy' for fretwork and complete setup.

I don't really agree - the great ones were great from the factory and the duff ones were always cheap. All my Grecos are stock, and superb instruments, including the pickups. My '83 Squier Tele Custom is stock apart from the bridge pickup and changes to pot values, and the stock pickups on my '82 Squier JV Strat are great - but not as great as the Greco strat from the same factory a few years before.
And they're not expensive if you know what you're looking for - this one-off '74 Greco Tele Deluxe was AUD $650 (under $US 450) a few months ago, and it's a killer. I'll put it up against any MIM ever made.

Where the fuck are you finding these?! When I see them they’re like $1500 or something ridiculous. This is like exactly what I’d want along with a nice LP but this thread has just made things more confusing for me :/

[MechaBulletBill]

-Many surviving MIJs are 'great players' because owners over time took them to a good local guitar tech to make them better so the high quality reflects more the post-factory work

uhhh my 80s Tokai Silver Star was bottom-of-the-range, 5 piece body and there was still plastic wrap under the knobs when I got it in 2016/17 and - with new tuners, vibrato and pickups - is one of the best strats out there

The “uhhh” at the front of this makes it sound like you’re contradicting his statement but you’re actually agreeing with him? I am confuse.

oh sorry, that guitar was really good before the upgrades, in un-tampered-with condition, almost as it left the factory. with the upgrades it is *especially* good, but mainly I disagree with the point "that late 70s/80s MIJ guitars are only good because they've had extra work done to them". They're pretty uniformly great guitars with great pickups.

Are they better than a modern MIM Fender? I don't know, but I *do* know that i prefer the shape of the necks and the sound of the pickups on older MIJs (old MIJ wrhbs are v v nice).

[andy_tchp]

Where the fuck are you finding these?! When I see them they’re like $1500 or something ridiculous. This is like exactly what I’d want along with a nice LP but this thread has just made things more confusing for me :/

Australia. There's a lot of them here, and they've never been worth huge amounts (and certainly not $1500USD!)

These (along with Fender Japan instruments, since selling prices for those seemingly doubled in the US for reasons unknown to me over the past 5 years) are generally the only things cheaper over here than the US.

I'd suggest it's also the ready availability/affordability of Fender Japan guitars that helps to keep resale values of the lesser-known brands (ie Greco/Burny/Tokai) a bit lower.

They're often great guitars though.

[timtam]

Since we're talking Australia, one of my local guitar stores (no affiliation) gets shipments of old Japanese guitars and thus always has a selection of Grecos (albeit not 'dirt' cheap.. prices in AUD$) ...
http://www.musicswopshop.com.au/SwoppyI ... arch=greco
Stock level varies, but this was perhaps the most they ever had ...

[MattK]

Where the fuck are you finding these?! When I see them they’re like $1500 or something ridiculous. This is like exactly what I’d want along with a nice LP but this thread has just made things more confusing for me :/

Well to be fair I had been looking for about 3 years when this one came up. But I've had good luck with Grecos - the cream Strat from Ochanomizu, Tokyo, for about $200 (plus airfare of course), and a slightly run down Tele Thinline for about $150 - I need to re-lacquer the fretboard because it had been stripped. But not too bad. Typically they run about AUD $850-1000 for a Fender copy, i.e. about $600-750 US.
But that makes up for decades of being gouged for US Fenders - anything made in USA retails for around $2000 and up.