Advise me on a first Jazzmaster?

[SmithStaton]

Hey there.

I've been wanting to wade into the pool, since i first sat down and plinked a few notes on a Classic Player JM. I had never had much interest in the offsets, but when Johnny Marr got his signature Jaguar, i took notice. When i tried one, i was pleasantly surprised, but then a bit of reading convinced me that i shouldn't get into short-scales. So, i looked into the JM, which is coincidentally around the time when i really got inspired by Rich Machin's [EDIT: wrong—not Rich Machin. I think it's Tony "Doggen" Foster] playing/writing, with a Jazzmaster on the Dave Gahan and Soulsavers recording.

So, basically, my situation is this: I'm not a very good guitar player, even though i've messed around with them with various degrees of commitment since 1980-ish. I started because of EVH and Jimi, and their songs, plus a lot of 80s metal are what i fool around with most of the time when i'm learning stuff. But, the music i will be writing will be much closer to the Soulsavers/depeche mode/PJ Harvey kind of thing. I'm really only interested in one very specific guitar tone for the JM i am about to buy:

https://youtu.be/G2JvMZAFzi4?t=890
[cued @ 14:50 + the song just before it]

It's a dirty-ish, deep, vintage thing..... As best i can tell, Rich Machin Tony Foster is playing a Fender Twin Reverb. Can't tell the model of his JM, but it looks... old. Real vintage, i assume.

I've been lurking on this site and TGP for a long while, and recognize there are a ton of variables where Jazzmasters are concerned, from the different styles of pickups which go from a 'traditional JM' to 'hot P90-style.' And about the trem position, and bridge upgrades, and all that 'jazz.' In my situation, this guitar is probably not going to be my primary instrument. I will be writing songs mostly with a DAW and softsynths/plugins, and the guitar may be a 'lead' instrument in terms of primary melody lines and such, but i imagine otherwise i'll likely still be playing my Strat and Les Paul more often. But, hey, maybe not. Point is, i can't splurge on an AVRI or real vintage JM at this point.

I'm considering a Squier JMascis (wish it came in other colors...), or a Fender Road Worn. Although the Classic Player i first played immediately felt like the most comfortable guitar i'd ever played, after reading all the traditionalists' gripes about it, i may be a bit put off by it. But, that's 'recoverable,' if it actually does make the most sense. So, my budget is really in the <$800 area. It's possible that i could go up a bit for a Vintera, but i really shouldn't. I've read a little about the Japan (CIJ or MIJ?) guitars, but i'm pretty sure i'll never be able to find one locally to check out. The NECK for me is pretty critical. I don't have a preference as far as radius goes—i've liked some curved and some flat. It's just a feel thing, on an individual basis. I do like a satin -> unfinished neck versus glossy, but as i said, i liked the CP (somehow...), so i dunno....

So, with regard to the tone in the video above, what should i be aiming for? To me, naively, i would think that tone is coming from 'hot,' P90-ish pickups, but i would have thought an old JM would not have that style of pickups in its stock form. Maybe he's swapped them for something else? In any case, i'm aware the JMascis has 'P90s,' and the CP has 'hotter' pickups, and the Vintera MODIFIED has 'hot' pickups. Is that what i'm after? Or is that tone coming from traditional pickups with just a cranked Twin Reverb?

I'd rather not get into modifying the guitar. Definitely don't want to have to pony-up another 100+ to replace a bridge, or dremel anything, or shim anything, or drill anything. If i were to get the JMascis, i could swing a pickup upgrade if that were necessary, but for the other higher--priced options, i'd need to use it stock for a while. Additional note: i'm not a 'hard/aggressive' player. No Nirvana-like strumming. I really want to do those growly/jangly type single-note melody passages and chords like in that song as it's cued @ 14:50, plus the song just prior. That type of playing shouldn't have me breaking strings or popping them out of the bridge, should they?

Bonus Questions:
• How important is the mismatched bridge vs neck radius on the Classic Player? The guitar felt/played great to me in the few minutes i had it—where would i notice that issue?

Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance for any words of wisdom.

[gypsyseven]

Have a look at the Classic 60‘s Lacquer Jazzmaster...Nitro finish, good electric and amazing pickups. And it comes with a hardcase.
Best bang for the buck in the Fender line...

[SmithStaton]

Have a look at the Classic 60‘s Lacquer Jazzmaster...Nitro finish, good electric and amazing pickups. And it comes with a hardcase.
Best bang for the buck in the Fender line...

Oooh. I forgot to mention this one. Yes, i've looked at it, and i love the idea of nitro, but i cannot deal with the one color in which it comes. Yeah, i've read only good things about it. Sounds good on the ThatPedalShow, too. But, that kind of blue—i just 'can't even.'

[Embenny]

I had never had much interest in the offsets, but when Johnny Marr got his signature Jaguar, i took notice. When i tried one, i was pleasantly surprised, but then a bit of reading convinced me that i shouldn't get into short-scales.

This is your critical error.

Never, ever, ever make decisions based on Internet lore, when your hands/ears/eyes tell you something different.

If you like a jaguar, buy that jaguar.

Same goes for all the JM questions. Nothing anybody says can substitute for trying a guitar out and making the decision yourself. For something like a first offset, don't buy sight unseen online. Get a guitar into your hands. Buy it if you like it.

There's a whole world of aftermarket parts, splitting hairs over minor spec differences, etc. My favourite guitars are all ones that just feel/sound right. I've sold many a guitar I bought because I had become convinced by a spec sheet, but they just never felt right.

Writing off shortscales was a critical error that I also made eons ago. I thought the JM was "superior" due to its scale length. My favourite offsets now are pretty much all jags and mustangs.

The biggest thing that disabused me of these "spec sheet" notions was my realization that I play 14" scale ukuleles and 35" scale 6-string basses, 2" nut classical guitars, etc - so I stared ignoring people who said x scale length or y nut width was "important" for "matching the guitar to the player."

Nope. Play what feels good, which is a gestalt of every aspect from neck finish to profile to woods to width to taper to scale length to fret size etc....too many permutations to worry about. Get them into your hands and stick with what feels nice.

[Tafarel]

One of the other guitar players in my band gets a similar sound using his AmPro Jazzmaster through a Supro Dual-Tone. He almost always has the tremolo on, as well, and I think that's a large part of the sound.

In looking/listening to the song indicated, it appears that he is using fairly heavy strings. It might just be the lighting; and they may be flatwounds, too. He also uses his thumb rather than a pick, which makes a huge difference in the sound. Just a couple of observations.

I've got a Roadworn JM and I can definitely get close to that darker sound with it through a Fender Deluxe Reverb. YMMV. Not my thing, usually, but you can get there, I'm sure, with a cheaper JM. Good luck.

[Ceylon]

Bonus Questions:
• How important is the mismatched bridge vs neck radius on the Classic Player? The guitar felt/played great to me in the few minutes i had it—where would i notice that issue?

Man, if you had to read that that was a thing and didn't notice it yourself, it's not an issue. Some people are more sensitive to those things than others, and if it doesn't matter to you it doesn't. Give it another whirl to think about it, just in case, but don't overthink it.

I mean they sold many thousands of those guitars and it's stayed in the line up for what, ten years? It's been a deal-breaker for some but clearly it hasn't been for a lot of people.

[SmithStaton]

I had never had much interest in the offsets, but when Johnny Marr got his signature Jaguar, i took notice. When i tried one, i was pleasantly surprised, but then a bit of reading convinced me that i shouldn't get into short-scales.

This is your critical error.

Never, ever, ever make decisions based on Internet lore, when your hands/ears/eyes tell you something different.

If you like a jaguar, buy that jaguar.

Same goes for all the JM questions. Nothing anybody says can substitute for trying a guitar out and making the decision yourself. For something like a first offset, don't buy sight unseen online. Get a guitar into your hands. Buy it if you like it.

There's a whole world of aftermarket parts, splitting hairs over minor spec differences, etc. My favourite guitars are all ones that just feel/sound right. I've sold many a guitar I bought because I had become convinced by a spec sheet, but they just never felt right.

Writing off shortscales was a critical error that I also made eons ago. I thought the JM was "superior" due to its scale length. My favourite offsets now are pretty much all jags and mustangs.

The biggest thing that disabused me of these "spec sheet" notions was my realization that I play 14" scale ukuleles and 35" scale 6-string basses, 2" nut classical guitars, etc - so I stared ignoring people who said x scale length or y nut width was "important" for "matching the guitar to the player."

Nope. Play what feels good, which is a gestalt of every aspect from neck finish to profile to woods to width to taper to scale length to fret size etc....too many permutations to worry about. Get them into your hands and stick with what feels nice.

Thanks.
My Scale Length thing isn't just choice coming from internet comments in isolation. I have big hands, and while i don't feel 'cramped' by a Les Paul, i do find a Strat to be more comfortable to play. As well, and maybe more importantly, although i love the look of a Jaguar, Johnny Marr is the only guy who plays one who inspires me, and i actually don't play any of his music, and i believe the songs i love by the Smiths were written/recorded on something else anyway (Ricks and/or 335s?). So, the Jaguar just isn't 'it' for me for multiple reasons.

I kinda agree with you on not 'splitting hairs" over minor spec differences, but i was trying to communicate that my primary interest in posting my question is to determine which type of pickups is best suited for the tone in the example video. That seems to be more than a minor matter, no? As for the other concerns, they may or may not play a part in the decision process, i dunno. Depends, i guess. Lastly, though, although i don't go into any purchase with the intent of selling it later, i'm realistic and recognize that the two guitars i have now i've only had for fewer than four years. I don't expect to keep anything forever, so if i have to or want to sell something down the road, it would help if there weren't some 'stigma' attached to it, which is why i ask questions about the CP and its 'more modern' Trem position, or the mismatched radii, etc. Again, i don't know if that will factor into my decision, but when you're as po' as i am at the moment, and have been waiting for so long to pull the trigger on this, well, i have both the time and inclination to delve into the details. For good or bad.

Overall, though, i tend to agree with you. A spec is not the end-all, be-all. I only recently started to pay attention to fretboard radius, and bore that measurement in mind when i recently went to play a bunch of guitars. And i found that even though i totally recognize the difference, i had no preference. It was purely down to the individual instrument as to whether i liked a flat or curved board. The one spec that is important to me, though, is nut width/string spacing. I definitely am able to fret chords more cleanly with a wider nut, so i do dismiss guitars on that basis.

[SmithStaton]

One of the other guitar players in my band gets a similar sound using his AmPro Jazzmaster through a Supro Dual-Tone. He almost always has the tremolo on, as well, and I think that's a large part of the sound.

In looking/listening to the song indicated, it appears that he is using fairly heavy strings. It might just be the lighting; and they may be flatwounds, too. He also uses his thumb rather than a pick, which makes a huge difference in the sound. Just a couple of observations.

I've got a Roadworn JM and I can definitely get close to that darker sound with it through a Fender Deluxe Reverb. YMMV. Not my thing, usually, but you can get there, I'm sure, with a cheaper JM. Good luck.

Thank you.
Yeah, it does look like he's using some ropes for strings. When i re-watched that video last night, i actually had to google whether there was such thing as a baritone Jazzmaster, because that tone is so deep. I saw the thumb, but wondered if it were a thumb pick. I guess i'll rewatch again. But, yeah, that's a good point. Definitely a fuller, rounder sound with fingers versus a pick. That's one thing about a guy named Lance Keltner that got me. He's a texas player who also demos gear on youtube, and his tone is always spectacular. At first, i started to get interested in certain products he was demoing, and then over time i recognized he always has that tone, regardless of the gear. He plays with his fingers, too, and the tone is 'thick.'

[SmithStaton]

Bonus Questions:
• How important is the mismatched bridge vs neck radius on the Classic Player? The guitar felt/played great to me in the few minutes i had it—where would i notice that issue?

Man, if you had to read that that was a thing and didn't notice it yourself, it's not an issue. Some people are more sensitive to those things than others, and if it doesn't matter to you it doesn't. Give it another whirl to think about it, just in case, but don't overthink it.

I mean they sold many thousands of those guitars and it's stayed in the line up for what, ten years? It's been a deal-breaker for some but clearly it hasn't been for a lot of people.

You're prolly right, but i really only sat down with that CP for five, maybe ten minutes, as i was wasting time waiting for a repair, and i knew nothing about JMs. I didn't even plug in. That impression was really about the body shape and that related comfort, the neck feel, and how comfortable it was to fret some typically difficult chords for me. My recent 'test' is trying to play a Jeff Buckley song that has some awkward (for me) chords because i have long fingers and some guitars make it significantly easier. Of course, that also doesn't factor in that the setups are variable in stores, but i can't factor in every variable.....

I will try it again. Sadly, even in the bigger stores in LA and San Diego, it's often difficult to find a lot of these JMs.

[W.L.Weller]

For what it's worth I think my Squier VM Jazzmaster & Staytrem cost me a grand total of $300. Even the most expensive Squier VM on Reverb right now + a Mastery would be under $600. I love mine and would recommend it to anyone as a legit option.

[SmithStaton]

For what it's worth I think my Squier VM Jazzmaster & Staytrem cost me a grand total of $300. Even the most expensive Squier VM on Reverb right now + a Mastery would be under $600. I love mine and would recommend it to anyone as a legit option.

Thanks.
I'll try to refresh my memory on the differences between the JM and VM Squiers. I know i kinda like the JM's neck, but i haven't seen/felt a VM yet.

[Maggieo]

For what it's worth I think my Squier VM Jazzmaster & Staytrem cost me a grand total of $300. Even the most expensive Squier VM on Reverb right now + a Mastery would be under $600. I love mine and would recommend it to anyone as a legit option.

That's a good idea- I did something similar with a Squier CV 50's Strat. I put in full-sized pots and a Callaham bridge and it's a great guitar.

[SmithStaton]

To the main question, though: am i correct in assuming i should have pickups closer to 'hot'/P90s than the traditional Jazzmaster pickups?

[Maggieo]

To the main question, though: am i correct in assuming i should have pickups closer to 'hot'/P90s than the traditional Jazzmaster pickups?

Only your ears can answer that question.

[Larry Mal]

Why would you assume that?