Anyone gotten a Black Bobbin Jazzmaster?

[wooderson]

Going to guess the headstock is controversial but I love it. CBS/Jazzmaster dialed up to 12.

I keep putting together Bilt Relevators in their guitar builder but more and more I'm thinking of one of these. Shelby Pollard knows offsets and there's nothing I'd want to change about the actual Jazzmaster shape for ergonomics.



https://blackbobbin.com/pages/black-bobbin-custom-jm

Charcoal frost, matching headstock, bright Spitfire tort...

[bessieboporbach]

Very interesting. The headstock is kind of like a Bigsby electric headstock.

[Mechanical Birds]

They look good but no prices. How much do they typically go for

[wooderson]

They look good but no prices. How much do they typically go for

$2999 base, I assume the upgrades like a Spitfire and matching headstock would add a few hundred.

[tamerofbantha]

the whole black bobbin scam is criminally lame. they sell rebranded lollar pickups. what possible difference could there be + or minus 5 percent on the wind? puh lease

not to mention the headstocks are puke-tastic. for 3 grand you can and should get a real Fender.

[marqueemoon]

I’ve said it before, but if I’m paying that much for a non-Fender I’d want an original shape.

[andy_tchp]

Man, that’s an awful pickguard.

[wooderson]

the whole black bobbin scam is criminally lame. they sell rebranded lollar pickups. what possible difference could there be + or minus 5 percent on the wind? puh lease

not to mention the headstocks are puke-tastic. for 3 grand you can and should get a real Fender.

I have a real Fender (well, multiple but only one JM), I'm looking to find another Jazzmaster so I can put Novak Thunderbirds in my current one. What I can't get for 3 grand is a Fender in a color I choose and I'll have to swap out the trem and bridge after the fact for $250 more. Fender Custom Shop isn't really an option - $1500-2000+ higher, rarely in a cool color, rarely matching headstocks, weirdly skinny necks and they're mostly butt ugly relics (I don't even mind relicing as a concept - FCS just does a bad job of it).

So, at this moment I can get an Ice Blue American Original for $2350 with tax, $250 for a bridge and vibrato, $100 for a new pickguard to replace Fender's ugly tort, $200 for new pickups most likely and it will probably need better shielding. Which makes it about as expensive as getting a boutique JM and it will always look a bit weird being a Fender metallic without a matching headstock. As for should... I don't care about Fender's intellectual property or whatever, they're just a brand owned by some private equity ghouls.

Which is to say, Bilt or Black Bobbin or someone like that is a better value proposition. A partscaster is also an option but comes in at $2k or so with all the right parts and a Starr Guitars finish.

As for the pickups... they partnered with Lollar on an A2 pickup that's cheaper than Novak and $5 more than the regular A5 Lollar. Not much of a scam.

By the time I make up my mind, maybe Fender will have replaced the AO line and I can get the '62-style of my dreams... but I doubt it.

[Zeus]

I get the Bigsby reference but that headstock is an abomination.

[JSett]

partscaster is also an option but comes in at $2k or so with all the right parts and a Starr Guitars finish.

I'm pretty sure these are just Partscasters anyway, just with good marketing and a $3000 price tag

Pickups - Lollar
Hardware - Mastery
Tuners - look to be Kluson
Knobs - look to be actually Fender ones
Pickguards - Spitfire
Bodies (and necks?) - Iconic Guitar

Screwing and soldering a guitar together doesn't make you a builder any more than giving someone the heimlich maneuver makes you a doctor

[wooderson]

partscaster is also an option but comes in at $2k or so with all the right parts and a Starr Guitars finish.

I'm pretty sure these are just Partscasters anyway, just with good marketing and a $3000 price tag

I mean, yeah, almost any bolt-on neck guitar can be called a partscaster, including Fenders. Very few guitars out there being hand-shaped piece by piece these days, they're CNCed and combined. I don't see that as a knock on boutique "Fenders" - just saying that putting it together with your own pieces (Guitar Mill body, Musikraft neck, good finish, a good fret level and setup, labor if you don't want to shield and wire it yourself) isn't a real cost savings. These are made by Iconic Guitars, so I mean, whatever level of boutique guitar you want to put that at.

The point remains, though, that you can't get a similar product from Fender for $3k unless Wildwood or Dave's do their special runs. You can get a similar product from Fender for $4600+ if you find the right one.

Or if you don't care that much about particular aesthetics, you can certainly get one cheaper - but it's a luxury, I'd just as soon pay $500 more over an American Original to get something the way I want it, much as I'd pay American Original prices to get a nicer finish and rosewood instead of a Vintera's pau ferro.

Screwing and soldering a guitar together doesn't make you a builder any more than giving someone the heimlich maneuver makes you a doctor

You've got a weird beef with this guy. He doesn't claim to be a builder - they're openly stating that Iconic builds them and he does the final setup and acts as a go-between. But also I don't know what this means or matters in the end. If the CNC is in wherever Fender's American factory is or someone else's factory or at Guitar Mill doesn't really matter much.

[JSett]

I mean, yeah, almost any bolt-on neck guitar can be called a partscaster, including Fenders. Very few guitars out there being hand-shaped piece by piece these days, they're CNCed and combined.

Fender have their own woodshop, cut and build their own necks and bodies, their own spray booth, pickup winders, use their own designed (and some in-house manufactured) hardware etc etc - just because they screw it together rather than glue it doesn't make it a 'partscaster'. You know that.

Screwing and soldering a guitar together doesn't make you a builder any more than giving someone the heimlich maneuver makes you a doctor

You've got a weird beef with this guy. He doesn't claim to be a builder - they're openly stating that Iconic builds them and he does the final setup and acts as a go-between. But also I don't know what this means or matters in the end. If the CNC is in wherever Fender's American factory is or someone else's factory or at Guitar Mill doesn't really matter much.

I have no beef with Shelby, he's a nice guy and knows his stuff - and I used to talk to him plenty on the old EA forum a few years back. I was just pointing out that you saying you could build a partsmaster for less was exactly what they are doing.

I also didn't say it 'matters' per-se, but it doesn't justify the pricetag. They've priced themselves firmly in the market where other companies, that have their own woodshop and actually make the guitars, are but are doing nothing more than final assembly. And, doing nothing original in the process other than the headstock. Which is a rip as well.

It's just a bit cheeky really. But that's just my opinion

[garyptaszek]

I agree with Johnny. Nothing against the guy but it seems he’s just capitalising on knowing what parts are nice on a Jazzmaster, and charging you for that. Anyone can put together a partsmaster, do the research to make sure what parts are compatible, choose the parts and spec, and assemble it themselves, or work with an actual luthier to assemble it.
I think he’s mainly charging for doing the leg work for people who perhaps aren’t as clued up as others... but imho he’s charged himself a little high.

[wooderson]

Fender have their own woodshop, cut and build their own necks and bodies, their own spray booth, pickup winders, use their own designed (and some in-house manufactured) hardware etc etc - just because they screw it together rather than glue it doesn't make it a 'partscaster'. You know that.

Iconic has their own woodshop yada yada yada.

Vertical integration doesn’t change that you can call all of these partscasters. Fender has a stack of bodies and a stack of necks and they’re fit together randomly.

There is no particular thought or care about “well this neck goes better with that body” on the Fender assembly line, the neck and body aren’t produced together. That’s a partscaster as much as buying a neck and body from Guitar Mill.

I also didn't say it 'matters' per-se, but it doesn't justify the pricetag. They've priced themselves firmly in the market where other companies, that have their own woodshop and actually make the guitars, are but are doing nothing more than final assembly. And, doing nothing original in the process other than the headstock. Which is a rip as well.

It's just a bit cheeky really. But that's just my opinion

If you want to view it as a rebranded Iconic guitar- who do the wood work, make the guitar, etc. then you’re back to square one.

But they aren’t really ‘firmly competing’ with anyone else. Bilt would be the closest to what you describe and to get a Relevator LS with a similar finish (instead of the default low sheen) would come out $1-200 more. Shelton Electric and Mario Martin would be $4-500 more, god only knows what Novo guitars cost anymore. Fender Custom Shop would be $1500+.

Which is fine, Bilt is still more likely the option for me (because I can pick the neck carve and I’ve actually played a Bilt guitar before) but in terms of pricing criticism I think people are forgetting how expensive guitars have gotten since the pandemic hit.

[JSett]

You've clearly got a hard-on for these things and are defending them to the death with flawed logic. Whatever dude, you do you. You opened up the topic for debate so expect opinions possibly in contrast to your own. If you wanna pay Shelby Pollard $1000+ to screw some parts together and string it up that's your shout. It's your money.

However, as a parting message - seeing as you're seemingly intent on digging your heels in by incorrectly saying all Fenders are 'just partscasters' as much as these Black Bobbins are - here are the key differences...

Black Bobbin:

Pickups - Lollar, but a Fender design
Hardware - Mastery, but originally a fender design in part
Tuners - look to be Kluson
Knobs - look to be actual Fender ones
Pickguards - Spitfire, but originally a Fender design
Bodies (and necks?) - Iconic Guitar, but a Fender design
Paint - Iconic Guitar
Assembly - Black Bobbin
Design - Fender

Fender USA:

Pickups - Fender
Hardware - Fender
Tuners - Kluson
Knobs - Fender
Pickguards - Fender
Bodies and necks - Fender
Paint - Fender
Assembly - Fender
Design - Fender

Do you even know the definition of a Partscaster? I'm not sure you do.