Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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hamish5178
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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by hamish5178 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:59 am

Glider wrote:
RumorsOFsurF wrote:
Glider wrote: I don't like the snap in really because it squeaks like crazy... Any ideas? Should I just lube it with something?

They definitely do squeak.  It doesn't bother me, but you could get some graphite to put on the arm. 
It doesn't really bother me either, but I can't concentrate on playing while hearing it and it kinda makes me uncomfortable when using the trem.
I take it you've never played live?

I don't mind the AVRI, that's why they put the output jack where they did, so the arm could rest on the cord.
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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by horizontalmode » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:48 am

I've had both versions, I prefer the snap in collet version, due to smoothness of the trem.
The screw in works good with some Teflon tape for positioning, but it's not as smooth as the Avri's, also the tape method doesn't last as long with the treaded collet compared to the snap in.
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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by FPicker » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:50 am

RumorsOFsurF wrote: I don't have any problems with any of my 4 AVRI trems.  They all stay in, and they all stay in place when I let go.

It sounds like you don't have the arm all the way in. 
It would seem that you are fortunate, as I am clearly not alone:

http://home.comcast.net/~rmessick2/Trem ... rm_Fix.htm

Plus, other people commenting on this thread also have had these issues evidently, and have addressed them using tape mostly, it seems. One must presume that most of the people with this problem have the arms properly snapped in, as do I.

I copied this comment from someone on the 'net who had both vintage and AVRI, don't know if it's correct but points to an actual design flaw of AVRI vs. vintage:

"Hard to describe, but even after 50 years of use, the thing hasn't moved a bit. + imho the reason why the trem arms stay put is the fact that the "groove" at the bottom of the trem arm on the vintage on is more  cone shaped where the AVRI has a groove that has the same width.
This is where the AVRI ones got it "wrong" , so to speak, since this is how the claws of the "collet" hold the trem arm in place. The conal shaped ends just click in place and stays there. Where on the AVRI it also clicks, but swings loose. + The conal shape kind of keeps you from pushing the trem are in too deep, causing damage to the collets claws.  "
Last edited by FPicker on Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by RumorsOFsurF » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:17 am

The teeth on the collet can be gently tightened, which is what I've done with at least 2 of mine.  The arms stay in place just fine.  I haven't had problems with CIJ OR AVRI trem arms.  I've owned at least 3 CIJ trems and another AVRI trem that I sold, which brings the total to 8 perfectly functioning trem arms if you include what I currently own.  Tape is unnecessary, IMO. 

If you need to tighten the teeth, take the trem unit out, and with arm in place, pinch the teeth with needle-nose pliers.  It should hold just fine.

I don't disagree that others have had problems, but a proper fix is much better to me than half-assing it with tape.
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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by FPicker » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:26 am

RumorsOFsurF wrote: .... a proper fix is much better to me than half-assing it with tape.
I think everyone would agree with this statement, but  I don't think this "proper fix" is widely known. At least, this method hasn't come up in what I've been looking at , on the 'net over the last while.  Moreover the two techs I've had the gutiar to also did not suggest this, they just suggested taping it.

So I will try this, thanks.

You mean you take the entire trem unit off the guitar entirely, when you do this? Or just take the arm out.

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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by RumorsOFsurF » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:34 am

You have to remove the entire trem plate.  Once it's out, the teeth are easy to see.  Be very careful, though, as the teeth on the collet are very easy to break. 

I think that's why people don't try this as much.  It's always worked for me, though.   :)
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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by artie » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:42 am

RumorsOFsurF wrote:
If you need to tighten the teeth, take the trem unit out, and with arm in place, pinch the teeth with needle-nose pliers.  It should hold just fine.
i have done this to my AVRI and my CIJ and my trem stays in place. no tape, no washers, no bending the arm.
i'm guessing it might loosen up at some point, but then i'll just tighten it again...

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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by FPicker » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:48 am

Actually, reading more carefully now, the guy in that link I posted above, who came up with the washer method, first tried the collet tightening method, but it didn't work for him; he had to stop as it seemed he was about to damage the collet.

"While changing my strings one day, I decided to remove the tremolo assembly and see if I could tighten the collet that holds the trem arm in place.  I have heard lots of horror stories about how fragile the collets are in the AV reissue Jags and Jazzmasters - many people have snapped off the teeth from the collets by trying to tighten them with pliers.    I tried that, too - (very carefully) - but stopped when I heard that fragile *ping!* sound of fatiguing metal. "

Reading further down, he was aware that the arm had to stay in, so this was not the problem, rather it was the fragility of the collet metal.

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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by artie » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:52 am

the first time i tried it, i did it without the arm in place and yes, they are VERY fragile.
but with the arm in place, i didn't experience anything that would give me the impression that they were going to break. i tightened the teeth right to the arm and it's fine.

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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by Glider » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:05 pm

hamish5178 wrote: I take it you've never played live?
never live with it, but even if i'm not able to hear it through at practise i can still feel it while playing  :-\



horizontalmode, i agree, it just feels really smooth... i haven't tried a jm/jag with a screw in arm but i played other ones and they just felt really stiff.

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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by -2N3904- » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:33 pm

FPicker wrote:
-2N3904- wrote: If you have to use the tape I mentioned a snap in arm is better IMO. 
Why do you think ithe snap-in's better, if you have to use the tape in either case? In what respect would it be better?
Although the tape is made for threads its works better on non threaded arms because its easier to remove the stuff when its worn out, that's basically all. There's no difference in functionality. With threaded arms you have bits of tape stuck between the threads and if you dont remove it with a kinfe  or something and put more on it causes lumps in the thread  once you've re done it and is hard to screw in again. This is what I've experienced anyways. The tape gets caught up in the thread really tight and wont just peel off like on a non threaded arm.
Last edited by -2N3904- on Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by Maukio » Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:01 pm

Glider wrote: I don't like the snap in really because it squeaks like crazy... Any ideas? Should I just lube it with something?
Mine began to squeak so I sprayed it with some WD-40.  I don't know if you have that over on your side of the pond so I looked up "similar products" under it's Wikipedia article and found these:

Selleys RP7
GT85
Zorrik 88
CRC 5-56
Caramba (in Europe/Germany), marketed since 1874, trademarked in 1903.
MOS6 by Molycote
Boeing Boeshield T-9

It's just the crap you spray to keep your door hinges and that type of thing from squeaking.  Once I did that it stopped squeaking and felt exactly the same.  Of course, I had to work it in a by using the trem arm a little before it really got in there well.

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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by crazypaws » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:08 pm

if you just spend some time setting up your american trem, it will lock in place just fine and wont slip, it takes time, hence the beauity of the floating trem. also, be aware, the mexican trems arm isnt as long as the american, it doesnt swoop as smooth, so its hard to use and bend. there are a few pros and cons to both, but stay with the american, play with it, trust me, you will love it much more
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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by Mad-Mike » Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:10 pm

I don't really have a preference.  But then I can get anything trem-wise to work.
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Re: Tremelo Arm: Screw-In vs. Snap-in ??

Post by Glider » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:25 am

Maukio wrote:
Glider wrote: I don't like the snap in really because it squeaks like crazy... Any ideas? Should I just lube it with something?
Mine began to squeak so I sprayed it with some WD-40.  I don't know if you have that over on your side of the pond so I looked up "similar products" under it's Wikipedia article and found these:

Selleys RP7
GT85
Zorrik 88
CRC 5-56
Caramba (in Europe/Germany), marketed since 1874, trademarked in 1903.
MOS6 by Molycote
Boeing Boeshield T-9

It's just the crap you spray to keep your door hinges and that type of thing from squeaking.  Once I did that it stopped squeaking and felt exactly the same.  Of course, I had to work it in a by using the trem arm a little before it really got in there well.
Haha yeah I think I have some WD40, I'm pretty sure it's available around here. Thanks. So I have to spray over the part of the arm which goes into the collet and also inside the collet, right? 


edit: found it, done. It moves faster now though... might tape it up...
Last edited by Glider on Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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