General CIJ Jazzmaster questions (pickups, neck, finish content)

[Jarvis]

Hey guys,

Though I'm a few months away from purchasing a CIJ Jazzmaster, I thought it would be worth it to do a little research on them. I've found that they're aren't exactly like their AVRI counterparts, but you all know that. I have some questions...

Pickups: Basically, the CIJ pickups just aren't "Jazzmaster-y", due to the thin, high winding (I guess?). I'd like to alleviate this, but without spending an arm and a leg. Basically, I'm looking for vintage sounding pickups. I don't want anything really fat, I plan on playing fairly clean or just overdriven, no high gain. I'd like to spend $150-$200 tops, but the lower the better, as long as they're quality pickups. I've only seen the SD Vintage and the SD Antiquity I and II's, not much else. If you've upgraded the pickups in your CIJ (or anything else), what did you choose and why?

Neck: I know all necks aren't going to be exactly the same, but in general, how are the necks on CIJs? Are they all covered in poly?

Finish: Do CIJ guitars use a poly finish? Will I ever be able to get that "armwear" and other cool "vintage" guitar looks out of a poly guitar? I love sweet old Jazzmasters like Nels Cline's (he's one of my favorite players), but I know older guitars used nitrocellulose finishes, and poly finishes are a little more resistant to scratches, etc.

Thanks again folks, and I'm sorry if any of my questions are a little redundant. If you've got links to other topics/websites that explain this, please feel free to post. Oh, and of course, this is the Jazz I'll be getting:



Jarvis

[zhivago]

as far as replacement pickups go, also check out Curtis Novak, Jason Lollar and also the AVRI pickups (the same ones used on AVRI Jazzmasters)

as far as the finish goes, yes, all CIJs are finished in poly (necks and bodies)

I dont think they'll age as nicely as nitro finished old guitars...the poly is vey thick and very durable.

[Yannic]

I'm affraid i can't help you on the replacement pickups. I replaced mine with SD quaterpounders, but that ain't exactly the vintage sound your looking for 

CIJ jazzmasters poly finish is very durable indeed. I'm affraid you will have a hard time getting some natural arm wear and such. If the finish is of the same quality as that on my '90 MIM strat I'm think you'll have to settle for dents instead of whole pieces of the finish disappearing ( as you can see on the older nitro guitars). Bit still after 17 years of service my strat is starting to look a bit relic'y ( but then again, it took so heavy abuse, heavyer then that I would want to put my JM through)

I really like the neck on my CIJ. I haven't played a more comfortable neck. But then this can be a personal thing. From what I've heard AVRI jazzmasters have a slightly thicker neck, but I've never played a AVRI before. They're quite hard to come by here in the Netherlands, and if you find them, they are expensieve!

[mezcalhead]

I think Zhiv's mention of AVRI pickups is a good one .. plenty of guys with AVRI JMs replace the pickups, so you do see them on ebay.

As far as the finish, it will wear differently to nitro, it tends to spall out in chunks rather than shallow chips like nitro does. Here are a couple of shots of my '72 P bass, which is poly .. not quite the same stuff as they're using now, but you can get an idea of what 30+ years of wear can look like on a poly finish:

[FireAarro]

Second what Zhivago said, check out all those builders. Curtis Novak is a member of this forum and gives a nice selection of JM pickups in your price range.

Poly does wear; some guitars have thicker poly finishes than others though, my CIJ Jazz Bass has a pretty nice thin finish which has two chips out of it around the arm contour edge.

[Yannic]

ah great to hear that poly does wear. So that means I can look forward to a reliced jazzmaster and strat in the next 30 or so years

[Orang Goreng]

Here are a couple of shots of my '72 P bass, which is poly .. not quite the same stuff as they're using now, but you can get an idea of what 30+ years of wear can look like on a poly finish:

As usual, I may be wrong, but IIRC the early-ish CBS guitars were finished in polyester, not polyurethane, so indeed a different poly vs. poly. I think the polyester wears more easily than polyurethane. One strange thing I noticed is that the finish on my CBS guitars reacts nastily with some cheap synthetic (polyester) shirts I have (to the extent that after long sweaty playing sessions, my shirt will be stuck to the back of the guitar and the texture of the fabric has made a little imprint in it), while the polyurethane on my other guitars don't react with the shirts at all.

I think this is where I read it:

1968 to 1980: Fender used a "thick skin" polyester finish. Later "thick skin" finishes got really thick in the 1970's, resembling a bowling ball. But all polyester finishes are very thick and glossy compared to the early lacquer finishes.

[djetz]

I have a 2002 CIJ Jaguar. The neck is fine, not quite a satin finish but nowhere near as slick as 70s Fenders. Feels good to me, and I've played a lot of guitars.

Poly got a bad reputation because Fender flooded the stuff on really thickly back in the 70s. But poly is certainly not a bad thing: despite the "mojo" hype, there is no discernible effect on the sound of the guitar, it does a lot less harm to the environment than nitrocellulose, and it's cheaper. It doesn't crack and fall apart like nitro, but it does wear. Personally, I prefer it.

Modern Japanese Fenders are absolutely great guitars. There is no reason to worry. I'm sure your JM will be a fine guitar and you'll get many years of fun out of it.

[aen]

I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE mine, I don't use the bridge pickup much, but I have an AVRI in there.  The neck finish on mine feels thick, but in a nice smooth kind of way.

[ohm-men]

I have a '93 Oly white MIJ Jazzmaster, with some wear. The oly white seams to darken over the years, mine's got a yellowish shade, very simelar to the AVRI Oly white. (I know because the other guitarist in my band plays a '03 AVRI oly white Jag and the colors are virtually the same)
You won't get any nitro wear spots (like the AVRI's also tend to have, but on the other hand the poly won't get sticky when playing a very warm places, like a stage under those horrible warm lights)
The wear I get looks simelar to the Japanese P-bass shown above. The finish seams to "chip" more over the years, which is nice as well.

As for the pu's, I like the MIJ/CIJ neck, but hate the thin sounding bridge
I did the following

* Switched the Japanse neck with the bridge PU and put a Seymour duncan "Hot" for JM in the bridge position (mind that the SD's are wound differently the the Fender Pu's so in order to  have a propper "mid" sound, you need to put the Japanese bridge in the neck position (I tried both and the bridge worked best there in combination with the SD)
*get a pair of US AVRI jazzaster pick ups, the best for buck imo
*Get a pair of Seymour Duncan "Antiquity For Jazzmaster" the "I" if you like darker sounding 50ties Jm or the "II" if you like twange 60ties sounding JM's or combine both. Superb sound, but not cheap outside the US.... more output then the stock AVRI's
*Get a custom made set from either Jason Lollar or Curtis Novak, you can't go wrong there....they even voce the pu's to one's personal taste. (I once bought Novak's for my Jaguar and they were the best I ever had....)
*Get the russian custom shop make you a pair (I bought one used for the oly white JM) they are more wound to JAG Pu but still sound JM (previous owner had them made to his taste) they defintly suit my ears and playing style....

I tried almost every JM pu I could get my hand on, ending up selling what I did not like or needed. very helpfull expirience...

So now I have a Russian Custom shop made set in one JM and an AVRI set in an other JM (still got a set of SD antiquty II's on the shelf for my future JM  thinline project.)
And to conclude, I like the AVRI's most (easy to find and afforable) with the SD antiquity I and II set very close a 2nd place (it's only because they are a bit to expensive outside the US) and third ranking are the custom made Russian PU's (since they suit my playing style so good and mix very good with the AVRI Jag)

[mynameisjonas]

this is what a japanese jazzmaster with polyurethane finish looks like after 21 years:



as you can see, there´s a bit of checking in the finish, and the finish comes out in big flakes rather than small chips. i doubt there will ever be any arm wear.

[cmatthes]

It's been a long time since I've played a Jpns JM/Jag.  What's the deal with the Trem/bridge quality v. the AVRIs or even the vintage stuff?  Lighter weight?

[Daysleeper]

I have a AV Jazzmaster and a CIJ Jazzmaster. I love them both the same but for different reasons. The MIJ is a lot thinner sounding...more like a jaguar. I love it! i use it for leads that I really need to cut through on my recordings. The AV is a lot deeper, way closer to a vintage. More low end.

[Jarvis]

I have a AV Jazzmaster and a CIJ Jazzmaster. I love them both the same but for different reasons. The MIJ is a lot thinner sounding...more like a jaguar. I love it! i use it for leads that I really need to cut through on my recordings. The AV is a lot deeper, way closer to a vintage. More low end.

Daysleeper, is your CIJ stock? Or at least the pickups?

[Daysleeper]

Yep. It's all stock except the pickguard.