installed TOM, action makes J Mascis green with envy

[Lobsterdeth]

I installed a Nashville TOM on my JM today, everything went good, saddles good string spacing good tremolo moves smoothly, all fine except one thing

the action is stupid high

like super high

I adjusted the truss rod already and the intonation but I just can't get the action down, dis shit higher than George Clinton on 4/20, I love Dino Jr but this is crazy yo

bad pic here

[NickD]

Have you shimmed the neck? best way to get your action down IMO.

Out of interest, how far are the strings off the 'board at the end of the 'board? It's only a ballpark measurement, but my low E is about 5mm above the fretboard at that point on most of my Fender and Fender style guitars.

[Lobsterdeth]

Have you shimmed the neck? best way to get your action down IMO.

Out of interest, how far are the strings off the 'board at the end of the 'board? It's only a ballpark measurement, but my low E is about 5mm above the fretboard at that point on most of my Fender and Fender style guitars.

Nope, it has a small paper shim but idk if that does the job, I've seen people put like a small maple square under there for those purposes.

Yeah, 5mm off the fretboard.

[NickD]

Have you shimmed the neck? best way to get your action down IMO.

Out of interest, how far are the strings off the 'board at the end of the 'board? It's only a ballpark measurement, but my low E is about 5mm above the fretboard at that point on most of my Fender and Fender style guitars.

Nope, it has a small paper shim but idk if that does the job, I've seen people put like a small maple square under there for those purposes.

Yeah, 5mm off the fretboard.

It seems I like my action high then!

If you want it lower, pop in a bigger shim - I cut one or two to shape out of cardboard (a string packet usually) and put them in at the back of the neck pocket.

[Lobsterdeth]

yeah i put in two cardboard shims, the action is good now but I'm getting horrible fret buzz on the E, A and D strings from the 17th to the 19th fret ;-;

[dporto]

"the action is good now but I'm getting horrible fret buzz on the E, A and D strings from the 17th to the 19th fret ;-;"

1) Try just raising that side of the bridge with the thumbwheel adjuster...if that doesn't get rid of the buzz > #2

2) Level the frets that are buzzing (this is probably the right thing to do first, but it's a little more labor intensive than raising the bridge...)

Good Luck

[morganp]

And I would add to this excellent advice: First! make sure the neck is straight. Depress the string to the fret at the first and 12th frets simultaneously (use a capo if you have to) and observe how much space you've got between the string and the 7th fret. You can press the string down to the fret to feel how much space there is. It should be a tiny, tiny bit. You're using the string as a straight edge, and measuring the neck's relief, or concavity. Backbow, or no relief can equal buzzy, too much relief can lead to high action.

String height is related to four factors (assuming your frets are level): nut height, saddle height, neck curve, and neck angle. There's really an ideal amount of nut height and neck curve, and a range (decided partly by player's preference) of usable action according to saddle height and neck angle. On many guitars, neck angle is the hardest thing to change, but with bolt-ons it's a little easier, since we can shim.

Since NObody likes a high nut or backbowed neck, I check those two first and make sure they're good, or adjust as needed. Then check that the frets are level, then set the action by adjusting the bridge/saddles. If that doesn't get you enough range, or you end up with too little break angle over the saddle(s), then it's time to adjust the neck angle. In that order, for best results. As in, there's no point in adjusting your saddle for action height if your neck is backbowed, since that will have to be changed regardless, and you'll end up redoing the bridge height anyway, after the neck is straightened.

If you don't have proper measuring tools, the guesstimate process is to sight down the fingerboard from the nut, looking down towards the bridge, to see if it's straight, and adjust the truss rod as necessary. Then play it; if it's hard to play, lower the bridge. If it's buzzy, raise the bridge.

If you do have measuring tools, we're usually looking for something like 5/64ths of an inch between the bottom of the low E and the 12th fret, and maybe 4/64ths between the bottom of the high E and the 12th fret, but YMMV.

Also, it's not clear from your pic, but it looks like the bridge height adjustment wheels are bottomed out on the pickguard? I was under the impression that guards made for TOM bridges had those holes enlarged to allow the thumbwheels to go lower, maybe I'm wrong. That could allow you some lower action right there, without the need for crazy tall shims.

[Lobsterdeth]

1) Try just raising that side of the bridge with the thumbwheel adjuster...if that doesn't get rid of the buzz > #2

2) Level the frets that are buzzing (this is probably the right thing to do first, but it's a little more labor intensive than raising the bridge...)

Good Luck

Yeah I'm guessing it's gonna need a fret dressing.

And I would add to this excellent advice: First! make sure the neck is straight. Depress the string to the fret at the first and 12th frets simultaneously (use a capo if you have to) and observe how much space you've got between the string and the 7th fret. You can press the string down to the fret to feel how much space there is. It should be a tiny, tiny bit. You're using the string as a straight edge, and measuring the neck's relief, or concavity. Backbow, or no relief can equal buzzy, too much relief can lead to high action.

String height is related to four factors (assuming your frets are level): nut height, saddle height, neck curve, and neck angle. There's really an ideal amount of nut height and neck curve, and a range (decided partly by player's preference) of usable action according to saddle height and neck angle. On many guitars, neck angle is the hardest thing to change, but with bolt-ons it's a little easier, since we can shim.

Since NObody likes a high nut or backbowed neck, I check those two first and make sure they're good, or adjust as needed. Then check that the frets are level, then set the action by adjusting the bridge/saddles. If that doesn't get you enough range, or you end up with too little break angle over the saddle(s), then it's time to adjust the neck angle. In that order, for best results. As in, there's no point in adjusting your saddle for action height if your neck is backbowed, since that will have to be changed regardless, and you'll end up redoing the bridge height anyway, after the neck is straightened.

If you don't have proper measuring tools, the guesstimate process is to sight down the fingerboard from the nut, looking down towards the bridge, to see if it's straight, and adjust the truss rod as necessary. Then play it; if it's hard to play, lower the bridge. If it's buzzy, raise the bridge.

If you do have measuring tools, we're usually looking for something like 5/64ths of an inch between the bottom of the low E and the 12th fret, and maybe 4/64ths between the bottom of the high E and the 12th fret, but YMMV.

Also, it's not clear from your pic, but it looks like the bridge height adjustment wheels are bottomed out on the pickguard? I was under the impression that guards made for TOM bridges had those holes enlarged to allow the thumbwheels to go lower, maybe I'm wrong. That could allow you some lower action right there, without the need for crazy tall shims.

I checked the 7th fret spacing on both E strings, they're both at 2 mm (lol metric sytem), or 5/64ths of an inch. When I see the neck from down under the headstock it looks to be a little bowed, but when playing I get no problems anywhere except the aforementioned 19th fret.

Yeah I don't have enlarged holes on the pickguard there... something to remember before I buy a gold anodized pickguard huh....

I'm guessing it's gonna need frets leveled, and it takes a year to fuck around with the truss rod cause this is one of those guitars with the truss rod screw on the bottom and I only own regular screwdrivers. I don't own tools to get the frets checked either so I guess I'm gonna have to take this guitar to a shop, I'm just lucky set-ups and such don't cost that much here I guess...

This guitar was shown no love by its previous owners, the bridge was a mess and that's why I changed it, but being a student on a budget I can't do much for it either lol.

Thanks for everything you guys.

[shaggseb]

Hi,

looks like your guitar has a 3 or 4 ply pickguard which avoid the bridge to be lowered as it can be with the original gold pickguard who's way thiner.
I had the same issue with my Squier JMJM when I put an AVRI tortoise guard on it. My solution was to enlarge the bridge's holes on the pickguard with sand paper wrapped around a big screwdriver. This way, I could lowered the bridge's posts at their max and I had no need for an extra shim.

Hope this helps

Cheers

S.

[Lobsterdeth]

Hi,

looks like your guitar has a 3 or 4 ply pickguard which avoid the bridge to be lowered as it can be with the original gold pickguard who's way thiner.
I had the same issue with my Squier JMJM when I put an AVRI tortoise guard on it. My solution was to enlarge the bridge's holes on the pickguard with sand paper wrapped around a big screwdriver. This way, I could lowered the bridge's posts at their max and I had no need for an extra shim.

Hope this helps

Cheers

S.

It's an AVRI lol. Yeah I'm getting a different pickguard too.

[dporto]

"but being a student on a budget I can't do much for it either lol."

All the more reason to get yourself some rudimentary tools and learn how to DIY - you'll save yourself a boatload of cash in the long run and always have guitars that are setup just the way you want them. Good Luck