Offset bridges and how they affect tone

[soul1]

I know different bridges all have different characteristics, and probably affect the tone of a guitar in some ways. The results might be subtle, but I know some offset players notice some changes in tone when using different style bridges.

So I wanted to make a thread to discuss this further. Any thoughts on how traditional JM/Jag, Mustang, Mastery, Staytrem, TOM, etc. bridges all affect tone in their own subtle ways.

[Zorro]

Staytrem bridge=a little bit dull, but punchy.
Stock bridge=more sparkle, but thinner.
No?

[aliendawg]

Oh!! Also which one has the most sustain?

[beauzooka]

Oh!! Also which one has the most sustain?

Mastery, imho.

[Danley]

I think a difference in saddle material (steel vs. zinc/nickel?) makes vintage bridges a bit rounder/smoother sounding than MIJ/modern.

[jvin248]

.

Regarding Sustain ... I've found that the amount of string beyond the nut and beyond the bridge are the cause for more or less sustain in a guitar. The extremes are the headless Strandbergs vs a Mandolin. Between the excessive headstock length and the tail mounted stop bar there is practically more string beyond the playing area than the playing area. This creates more string stretch and thus friction over the nut and saddles. Reverse of bad shocks on a car that bounces (sustains) all the way down the road after a pot hole.

.

[timtam]

The German GITEC group has recently finally published the English translation of the key Ch7 of the book 'Physics of the Electric Guitar', on the physics of the neck, body, and associated hardware ...
https://www.gitec-forum-eng.de/2019/08/ ... s-on-line/
Direct link to PDF : https://www.gitec-forum-eng.de/wp-conte ... guitar.pdf
Much of this was work was done several decades ago, but has not been well known outside of Germany.

Regarding sustain, the following is a simple statement of a key physical principle and experimental finding ...
"If long sustain is desired in a plucked string, then that largest portion of the vibration energy must exactly NOT be transmitted to the guitar body [or neck]." (p25)
[the chapter's translation is a bit stodgy at times]

Thus the bridge with the longest sustain for a given tone (frequency) is the one that transmits the least string vibration at that frequency to the body or neck. The chapter includes experimental evidence for how things like break angle over the bridge and residual string length affects sustain.

In general, the effect of bridge and nut/frets/neck on the loss of tonal frequencies is summarized as follows "the low-frequency absorptions result from resonances of the neck, the high-frequency absorptions stem from bridge resonances." (p46) Examples are shown for the A string on a tunomatic bridge of a LP. Evidence is also shown for the shorter sustain of vintage strat bridge saddles, compared to the later, stiffer, less-frequency-absorbing diecast saddles.

Also ...
"The guitar body certainly has considerable impact on the radiated airborne [acoustic] sound, but for the voltage generated by the pickups, it is insignificant as long as typical design rules are not grossly violated." (p83)

Another interesting aspect of the chapter is the example quotes from the mainstream guitar press of the many misunderstandings of solid body electric guitar physics that have been written therein over the years.

[aliendawg]

Wow that's very interesting stuff right there! Thank k you so much for sharing

[jorri]

I have tried 4 bridges. Not including subtle modificarion.

Vintage threaded: more harmonics but more buzz.
Graphtech: controlled and dull. Dullest, most fundamental sound. It sounds plasticcy, because its plastic.
Mustang saddles: higher sustain, lower harmonic attack. More fundamentals.
Cheapo chinese modified mustang off ebay: resonant, almost harmonics of the threaded, less buzz. Bit brighter.

#4 is a very light bridge.
With mass, you kind of have an option of sustain vs resonance. Lighter resonates more, so it may be more interesting. Heavier loses less energy because it requires more energy to be excited, but then might lack some harmonic structure as a cost to sustain
Mass that is not between the string and the body is useless because presumably it must resonate to the body. That is a reason to not cut nut slots too deep, other than binding.

You can go either way on an electric though. It doesnt need to resonate a body, but it can excite a bridge if you want. The aim is to excite pickups, which of course has little to do with it!
Unlike a bowed string luthier who has to carefully lave off bits of wood until the resonance is sufficient enough to excite an acoustic body.

I use that dirt cheap bridge i got for a tenner.

[aliendawg]

I have tried 4 bridges. Not including subtle modificarion.

Vintage threaded: more harmonics but more buzz.
Graphtech: controlled and dull. Dullest, most fundamental sound. It sounds plasticcy, because its plastic.
Mustang saddles: higher sustain, lower harmonic attack. More fundamentals.
Cheapo chinese modified mustang off ebay: resonant, almost harmonics of the threaded, less buzz. Bit brighter.

#4 is a very light bridge.
With mass, you kind of have an option of sustain vs resonance. Lighter resonates more, so it may be more interesting. Heavier loses less energy because it requires more energy to be excited, but then might lack some harmonic structure as a cost to sustain
Mass that is not between the string and the body is useless because presumably it must resonate to the body. That is a reason to not cut nut slots too deep, other than binding.

You can go either way on an electric though. It doesnt need to resonate a body, but it can excite a bridge if you want. The aim is to excite pickups, which of course has little to do with it!
Unlike a bowed string luthier who has to carefully lave off bits of wood until the resonance is sufficient enough to excite an acoustic body.

I use that dirt cheap bridge i got for a tenner.

Which mustang knock off are you using exactly? The barrel ones or the barrel ones with adjustable height?

[jorri]

I have tried 4 bridges. Not including subtle modificarion.

Vintage threaded: more harmonics but more buzz.
Graphtech: controlled and dull. Dullest, most fundamental sound. It sounds plasticcy, because its plastic.
Mustang saddles: higher sustain, lower harmonic attack. More fundamentals.
Cheapo chinese modified mustang off ebay: resonant, almost harmonics of the threaded, less buzz. Bit brighter.

#4 is a very light bridge.
With mass, you kind of have an option of sustain vs resonance. Lighter resonates more, so it may be more interesting. Heavier loses less energy because it requires more energy to be excited, but then might lack some harmonic structure as a cost to sustain
Mass that is not between the string and the body is useless because presumably it must resonate to the body. That is a reason to not cut nut slots too deep, other than binding.

You can go either way on an electric though. It doesnt need to resonate a body, but it can excite a bridge if you want. The aim is to excite pickups, which of course has little to do with it!
Unlike a bowed string luthier who has to carefully lave off bits of wood until the resonance is sufficient enough to excite an acoustic body.

I use that dirt cheap bridge i got for a tenner.

Which mustang knock off are you using exactly? The barrel ones or the barrel ones with adjustable height?

They were allparts i think. They had gaps, which is never a good sign.

[aliendawg]

I wonder if you can get rid of the gaps by swapping the barrels with the original threaded ones

[jorri]

ah...well it is just the barrels. I'm pretty sure I only bought the saddles, so what you'd have is then very expensive new intonation screws.

No comment on the wider posts, mustangs have snug fitting post if i am not mistaken. I did block mine once and it was definitely just more like a normal guitar, more like a strat, somehow. I didn't like it.

At one point i used some bits of metal foil to separate them. I really like wide spacing. In the end i got rid of it. Hail chinese £10 bridge. Apart from the chrome basically falling straight off i see no issue!

[hwestman]

Oh!! Also which one has the most sustain?

I fond Halon bridges sustain even more than the Mastery which makes sense since it is machined from a solid chunk of steel rather than pressed sheet metal.

[jorri]

Oh!! Also which one has the most sustain?

I fond Halon bridges sustain even more than the Mastery which makes sense since it is machined from a solid chunk of steel rather than pressed sheet metal.

Where can you find those? How much are they? they look decent from the google image search. Not sure i'd want the tele-saddle design but the brass 6-saddle.