string retainers

[burpgun]

Hey all, I'm not even going to claim this is important, but I was wondering about string trees. I'm mostly a bass player and have never had any issue with the single string tree retainer you find on most Precisions and Jazzes. I've got an American Jaguar and it's got a "stealth" string tree on the A string tuner. Not sure what it adds other than an additional wrinkle when changing strings, but it's there and Fender seems to think it offers something. I was just looking at a picture of a Wal bass and there's bar holding down all four strings. It made me think that if the aim is to to increase the string break angle, why isn't that Wal technique the best way? I had a Kramer acoustic bass guitar and think it had the same sort of retainer too.

[timtam]

String trees are somewhat controversial. But the reason why not all strings have them on Fenders is that the string angles are only low for the farthest tuners ie lowest for high E, then B, then A. The other strings have closer tuners and therefore greater angles. Gibsons have angled headstocks instead.

But I know some guitar techs who have to deal with the string catching on string tree edges and causing tuning problems that feel they are a PITA and best avoided. There are roller string trees that may or may not be better than the vintage Fender style in that regard.

String angles over the nut / headstock / string trees get several sections in Ch7 of Zollner's 'The Physics of The Electric Guitar' ....
https://www.gitec-forum-eng.de/2019/08/ ... s-on-line/
But he seems more equivocal about the pros/ cons (nut downforce / friction) than he is about the string break angle over the bridge.

[alexpigment]

Good winding around the posts usually negates the need for additional string trees other than the B/E tree. You'll find that a lot of locking tuners are staggered (decreasing height on each post), because they are meant to be without additional winds. I've never had any problems with D/G break angle, but I usually have 5 or more winds on each one (I use Fender vintage style tuners on all my guitars for what it's worth).

As for strings catching on the trees, I'd be a lot more worried about it with a D string since it's wound. As long as the tree is perfectly parallel to the strings and just on the B/E, it should be fine. A little lubrication under them never hurts though.

[jorri]

They increase break angle but mostly used to prevent buzz. Or i suppose strings popping out of cheap nuts. Of course, you may notice a change of feel or maybe you do that trick playing behind the nut. Otherwise disadvantage is friction.

On my jazzmastet it didnt even need one on B string and would string it that way. But E was noticeable buzz.
On jazz bass my A buzzed so i put an extra on it.
In theory good nuts prevent that but i think the angle was less too for whatever reason.