Intonation misconceptions

[seenoevil II]

Danelectro (those prop 8 funding shit heads)

How the fuck am I just finding out about this??

Yeah, buddy. So many woke hipster types are playing Danos nowadays. One I saw was a queer person. I want to tell them, but I don't think that would go well. It's a shame. They were a cool Neptune, NJ brand. Still have Guild though

[Telliot]

Welp, I guess I’ve got a 12-string to sell. I won’t support that nonsense.

[countertext]

Danelectro (those prop 8 funding shit heads)

How the fuck am I just finding out about this??

I know, man, somebody mentioned it a few weeks ago in a different thread. I’d never heard about it before.

[marqueemoon]

Its drives me INSANE how many expensive guitars play crazy sharp at the first fret because of a high nut slot.

This so much. Drives me batty. It's like nobody even tries anymore with this shit.

I tried a Buzz Feiten equipped guitar once (tuned with a calibrated tuner of course) . It sounded both really right and really wrong.

[Larry Mal]

In at least some cases the nut work is because of those machines they use... the PLEK. I'm not at all a fan of the PLEK setup and view it at best a passable job to get a guitar ready for the Guitar Center floor.

How a guitar maker can consider that better than what a human being could do I have no idea, but I also know that they don't consider it better (the Custom Shops never use it), so it's clear that some guitar makers consider the guitar to be not completely finished just because it's hanging up for sale on a wall somewhere.

And unlike Mike i haven't found the courage yet to get my own files and learn how to do nut work yet, and some of my guitars do need it. Maybe I should get to that in the New Year since I have a bunch of acoustics with plastic nuts that I want to make be bone anyway, so I could practice on the plastic.

[Embenny]

Honestly Larry, it's a fantastic investment (both in terms of time and money) for anyone with multiple guitars.

I got the stewmac double-sided ones (a different gauge on each edge) which cuts down on total cost and the amount of space needed to store them.

They take off very little with each stroke, so it's much less intimidating to use than you'd think. You just have to make sure you're angling the file down toward the headstock. A bit of painter's tape to protect the headstock never hurts, and you just go slowly, stringing it back up to check depth as you work (if you're like me...I bet experienced techs can get fancy and use a caliper or even their eyes to tell when they're getting close).

You could probably use a caliper to measure the first feet height, and target that - but I just go a bit at a time to be cautious.

It feels fantastic to be able to solve this issue at home...whenever I trade for or buy a guitar, I make note of any high or binding slots and just whip out the files the first time I'm changing strings. Especially on acoustic, where I find I use more first-position chords - I've never had a true intonation issue on a good acoustic but I sure have had some that play unpleasantly out of tune. Bending those thick acoustic strings down to the first couple frets from a high slot is tough on the fingers and even worse on the ears.

[jorri]

Intonation on offsets i would expect to be worse.
But actuall i find myself hardly having to adjust it now its properly loctited and setup.

The rocking bridge should mean its always going out, but maybe its the round saddles and low break angle keeping it in check. More downward tension on guitars maybe means the low strings vibrate for less of their full length.
Certainly if screws are coming loose or strings come out of slots it wont however.

Intonation: basically strings arent perfect physics equation strings, real material properties mean they dont vibrate for exactly their full length, depending a lot on their thickness.

[somanytoys]

Honestly Larry, it's a fantastic investment (both in terms of time and money) for anyone with multiple guitars.

I got the stewmac double-sided ones (a different gauge on each edge) which cuts down on total cost and the amount of space needed to store them.

They take off very little with each stroke, so it's much less intimidating to use than you'd think. You just have to make sure you're angling the file down toward the headstock. A bit of painter's tape to protect the headstock never hurts, and you just go slowly, stringing it back up to check depth as you work (if you're like me...I bet experienced techs can get fancy and use a caliper or even their eyes to tell when they're getting close).

You could probably use a caliper to measure the first feet height, and target that - but I just go a bit at a time to be cautious.

It feels fantastic to be able to solve this issue at home...whenever I trade for or buy a guitar, I make note of any high or binding slots and just whip out the files the first time I'm changing strings. Especially on acoustic, where I find I use more first-position chords - I've never had a true intonation issue on a good acoustic but I sure have had some that play unpleasantly out of tune. Bending those thick acoustic strings down to the first couple frets from a high slot is tough on the fingers and even worse on the ears.

I have a feeling this is part of the problem on one of my basses, and maybe one of my guitars. I was convinced it was the neck, and that may be part of the problem, but I’m thinking the nut may need to be filed a bit. It may be a combination of factors.

Guess I’ll be going back to the Stewmac site soon to buy a set of those files, and maybe one of those string height measuring card/plate things. I should probably look at getting a couple of bone nuts, too.

Buying shit like this never ends, but it’s expensive going to someone good to get a really nice setup, especially for multiple guitars and basses.

Even Guitar Center charges too much - more than their setups are worth, anyway. I actually did a better job on a guitar after I got them to set it up. First and last time.

My biggest apprehension is with adjusting the truss rod, since that’s where a good setup starts. I guess eventually you get a feel for the right amount of bow you need to offset the string tension. I can do the intonation and string height well enough, but it all seems to be for shit if the neck isn’t right.

[andy_tchp]

My biggest apprehension is with adjusting the truss rod, since that’s where a good setup starts. I guess eventually you get a feel for the right amount of bow you need to offset the string tension.

Not really feel, measurements.

Measure the relief with the guitar strung up and tuned to pitch, adjust the rod to tighten or loosen, measure again, rinse/repeat/etc as necessary.

There's no black arts or mystery to truss rods and their operation, they are very simple mechanical devices, in spite of some of the histrionics often seen on internet fora around OMGWTFBBQ YOU'RE GOING TO DESTROY THE NECK YOU SHOULD TAKE IT IN TO GC FOR A "PRO SETUP" MANG.

[adamrobertt]

My biggest apprehension is with adjusting the truss rod, since that’s where a good setup starts. I guess eventually you get a feel for the right amount of bow you need to offset the string tension.

Not really feel, measurements.

Measure the relief with the guitar strung up and tuned to pitch, adjust the rod to tighten or loosen, measure again, rinse/repeat/etc as necessary.

There's no black arts or mystery to truss rods and their operation, they are very simple mechanical devices, in spite of some of the histrionics often seen on internet fora around OMGWTFBBQ YOU'RE GOING TO DESTROY THE NECK YOU SHOULD TAKE IT IN TO GC FOR A "PRO SETUP" MANG.

Yep. I used to try to eyeball truss rod measurements but it isn't possible since the spec for most common guitars is literally .010'' at the 8th fret. Basically impossible to eyeball that and it's also a much smaller gap then most people probably realize at first. I bought a set of feeler gauges and my setup game improved significantly.