My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

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Beltone
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My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by Beltone » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:30 am

Argh. I need help, feedback, whatever you can offer. I've tried some searches on the forum and fixes but nothing has worked so far. Here's the deal.

I bought my Player Jag (MIM) new last summer and played it for 6 months before bringing it in for the free setup I was offered at time of purchase. It came back playing like a dream. What I had thought was a good guitar now seemed like a great guitar. Some of it was intangible, but other parts were measurable. The whammy bar had more pitch range and felt easier to manipulate. An intonation issue I had on one string disappeared. Other little vibrations and pings I had dismissed as minor disappeared.

So what did I do to ruin this perfect balance? From the beginning, the whammy bar swung freely and just pointed straight to the ground when not in use. I made some half-hearted attempts to fix it in place (like the bend in the bar trick mentioned here a few times) but ultimately just adapted my technique to just reach for it when needed or play with it held by my lower fingers when in more frequent use. Then I made a mistake of watching a youtube video of a guy demo-ing his new Player Jag and noting that the whammy bar stayed in place "like it was supposed to." Next thing you know, I've popped off the tailpiece tightened the collet with pliers and voila, my whammy bar is "fixed" and stays in whatever position I leave it until needed.

So what's wrong with that? Almost immediately I noticed that when playing single note lines on the G string a springy rattling sound would emanate from the base of the whammy bar. At first it was around the 4-6th frets. I tried some adjustments. The vibration moved to the 7th and 8th frets. I made more adjustments. All it did was move the vibrations when playing around the 12th fret. At this point my bar was tilted at such an odd angle that the offset.guitars website would be using a photo of my guitar as a "what not to do" example. It's gotten to the point that I'm avoiding playing this guitar even though I could just take the whammy out and play other songs on it right now.

Part of me wishes I had never done anything in the first place and just let the whammy dangle. I'm afraid if I try adjust the collet it will break. Is this a legit concern? Am I settling by not having a fixed whammy? Am I even looking in the right place by trying to adjust the whammy with the screw in the tailpiece when the problem is something else? Thanks for the time if you have an idea about this.

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by adamrobertt » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:16 am

It's probably the arm rattling in the collet, it's a pretty common problem even with fancy units... I have a Mastery vibrato and I still get some weird sympathetic arm vibrations sometimes. It's slightly annoying but I've learned to just ignore it. You can't hear it through an amp and I'd much rather not have a floppy vibrato arm.

As far as fixing it goes, you could get a Staytrem if you're in the UK, or you could try putting some teflon tape or something like that on the arm and then re-inserting it. You may need to loosen the collet for that to work, though, and I'm not sure it'd actually fix the problem.

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by timtam » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:17 am

EDIT: Looks like there may have been a revision, as Players series jag trems mostly don't seem to have a lock, whereas the one in the parts manual below does (along with a screw-in arm). And your version presumably has a push-in arm ? The pics on the Fender website actually shows some with lock, some without ...
https://shop.fender.com/en-US/electric- ... 03513.html

In any case, if yours is push-in, ignore the following. ;)

The Player series jag's trem (0076232000) has a screw-in arm right ?
https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Orig ... _Rev_A.PDF
Supposedly the same as the Classic Player's screw-in according to Riley ...
https://darrenriley.com/store/fender-cl ... 076232049/
Which would mean that placement problems could be handled differently to a push-in arm (eg by rotating the collet).
Last edited by timtam on Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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jorri
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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by jorri » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:31 am

Find some tape. Tape the end of the arm. Various tapes work as long as they are thin. Tape will help it stick and tape can't Rattle.

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by DeathJag » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 am

So weird to see this, just as I was contemplating it. I have a Mastery trem and honestly, I vastly prefer the AVRI. The arm stays in place just fine, but it both rattles and if I touch it by accident, it vibratos! The vibration doesn't seem to come through the amp, but the little vibrato does. It's just too loose, the whole thing. No spring to tighten, just a fancy logo. I think I'll put an AVRI trem on it now that I think about it. That'll show it!

Teflon tape seems to me like it might disintegrate messily? I was thinking a piece of heat shrink to start?

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by adamrobertt » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:39 am

DeathJag wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 am
So weird to see this, just as I was contemplating it. I have a Mastery trem and honestly, I vastly prefer the AVRI. The arm stays in place just fine, but it both rattles and if I touch it by accident, it vibratos! The vibration doesn't seem to come through the amp, but the little vibrato does. It's just too loose, the whole thing. No spring to tighten, just a fancy logo. I think I'll put an AVRI trem on it now that I think about it. That'll show it!

Teflon tape seems to me like it might disintegrate messily? I was thinking a piece of heat shrink to start?
But there is a spring to tighten... the center screw tightens the vibrato, just like on a regular one...

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by DeathJag » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:09 am

adamrobertt wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:39 am
DeathJag wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:37 am
So weird to see this, just as I was contemplating it. I have a Mastery trem and honestly, I vastly prefer the AVRI. The arm stays in place just fine, but it both rattles and if I touch it by accident, it vibratos! The vibration doesn't seem to come through the amp, but the little vibrato does. It's just too loose, the whole thing. No spring to tighten, just a fancy logo. I think I'll put an AVRI trem on it now that I think about it. That'll show it!

Teflon tape seems to me like it might disintegrate messily? I was thinking a piece of heat shrink to start?
But there is a spring to tighten... the center screw tightens the vibrato, just like on a regular one...
What the hell someone just put a screw on there! Sigh. What the hell was I thinking?! I’m gonna tighten it.

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by JVG » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:29 pm

I’ve never seen the term “whammy bar” used so many times in a single post! :P

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by Singlebladepickup » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:38 pm

JVG wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:29 pm
I’ve never seen the term “whammy bar” used so many times in a single post! :P
whammy dangle

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by JVG » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:09 pm

Singlebladepickup wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:38 pm
JVG wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:29 pm
I’ve never seen the term “whammy bar” used so many times in a single post! :P
whammy dangle
Hehe

(Only 2 days into lockdown here, and i’m already losing my mind :wtf: )

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by Singlebladepickup » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:04 pm

JVG wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:09 pm
Singlebladepickup wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:38 pm
JVG wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:29 pm
I’ve never seen the term “whammy bar” used so many times in a single post! :P
whammy dangle
Hehe

(Only 2 days into lockdown here, and i’m already losing my mind :wtf: )
Are you locked down in a roo's pouch? That's where i'd wait this whamdangler out if I was in 'straya

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by Beltone » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:45 am

Thanks for the help everybody.

adamrobertt: The teflon has helped a great deal cutting down the vibration.

timtam: Greatly appreciate the links to the Fender technical drawings. Mine is a push in, but I’m tempted to convert to the screw-in tailpiece you shared in the other link.

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by timtam » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:40 pm

Beltone wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:45 am
Thanks for the help everybody.

adamrobertt: The teflon has helped a great deal cutting down the vibration.

timtam: Greatly appreciate the links to the Fender technical drawings. Mine is a push in, but I’m tempted to convert to the screw-in tailpiece you shared in the other link.
Yes the Classic Player's Korean-made trem has a screw-in arm. While some people find them to be fine, the 'premium' (MIA) screw-in trem these days is probably the Am Pro's (which may also be what's on the latest Ultra JM .. in which case Fender may be saying that screw-ins are now 'preferred'). The angle at which the arm sits when it gets tight at the end of the thread range is somewhat dependent on where the collet rotation ended up (when it was screwed all the way into the plate). But if necessary that end-position could theoretically be adjusted by adding a washer under the collet.

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Re: My Jag was set-up perfectly until I did this...

Post by buddhuu » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:10 am

timtam wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:17 am
[...]

The Player series jag's trem (0076232000) has a screw-in arm right ?
https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Orig ... _Rev_A.PDF
Supposedly the same as the Classic Player's screw-in according to Riley ...
https://darrenriley.com/store/fender-cl ... 076232049/
Which would mean that placement problems could be handled differently to a push-in arm (eg by rotating the collet).
The original trem on my Player Series Jaguar was push in. I swapped it out for a US trem with lock button and the two trems are identical apart from the absence of a lock on the stock Mexican Player.

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