Enhanced harmonics: bridge or trem?

[Mitch T]

Hi all, been a while but I' m back in Jazzmaster country! I recently bought a Squier CV60s. Took a while to setup but everything's good now. I do notice that comparing it to the JM I had before, this one lacks a large part of the upper harmonics. You know, the nice ones that almost make it sing, even when strumming gently.
Ofcourse, no single guitar is the same but in my experience, apart from neck and setup, the material of both bridge and tailpiece can make a huge difference.
Thing is, the CV60s had this kinda improved mustang bridge. Big saddles, deep groove: thank you Fender for finally coming up with something that works great but I have no clue of the material.
Second is the tailpiece/trem unit. I have to admit my first guess this one's very low quality but must admit, my experience with different trems is almost zilch.

Could any of you share their experience on tone when changing trems?

[Danley]

In all honesty - I've noted almost zero change in tone when changing vibratos. In theory though - each individual vibrato will induce a different break angle over the bridge, since in particular some Squier vibratos elevate the strings above the baseplate more. Also, there could be differences in tone due to the weight of the spring; a softer spring might absorb and bleed more string energy, while a stiffer string would unsurprisingly act more solid (and there are differences in spring tension between US/vintage and import, though I forget which way they go.)

I have sensed - though not had the equipment to measure - differences in tone due to saddle materials (or that's what I blame it on) when switching between import and vintage bridges; a lot of the import bridges use zinc saddles, while they were steel on vintage models (and thus can rust/corrode) for both Mustangs and Jazzmaster/Jaguars - though I'm not sure what the new Squier bridges are made of. You can test this, as steel is a lot more magnetic than zinc. Zinc seems to give a more open/harmonic tone to my ears, where steel is more fundamental and brighter.

[Mitch T]

I agree with you on many points. Normally my guess would be bridge, saddles. Good one on finding out zinc by its magnetic properties!
With my previous JM, I replaced a mustang bridge by a Mastery with entirely nothing changed in sustain, attack or harmonics. I was a bit bummed.
Most experience I built up with tom bridges and tailpieces. Sometimes dramatic change in treble, bass or presence (to put it in amp EQ terms). That's why I was in doubt for an AV trem. Especially since the Squier trem is quite stiff. I used to love the Japanese trem, Little experience with avri...

[Danley]

I agree with you on many points. Normally my guess would be bridge, saddles. Good one on finding out zinc by its magnetic properties!
With my previous JM, I replaced a mustang bridge by a Mastery with entirely nothing changed in sustain, attack or harmonics. I was a bit bummed.
Most experience I built up with tom bridges and tailpieces. Sometimes dramatic change in treble, bass or presence (to put it in amp EQ terms). That's why I was in doubt for an AV trem. Especially since the Squier trem is quite stiff. I used to love the Japanese trem, Little experience with avri...

I'm at about a 50% ratio of Squier or MIJ trems just being non-functional and not keeping tune; replacing with AVRI helped on each of those counts. For the MIJ trems I do have on guitars, I had to replace the spring with an AVRI spring to get the tailpiece to level and use the lock button (but only because I use 9 gauge strings, it would have been fine with 10s.) Yeah - since I don't have a tonal issue with stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridges and they've never rattled for me, I've sold off all the Masteries that got into my hands and replaced them with vintage or AVRI Jazzmaster bridges.

Anyway, for me I'd have to wonder if it's just the basswood bodies that make the Squiers ring out differently; that seems to be the obvious difference when I sit down to compare specs even after swapping parts, but I feel like I sort of know what you mean about the harmonic diffs - that said I think of it just as a different flavor rather than something on a better/worse spectrum.

[Mitch T]

Yeah, it's not bad sounding at all, I'm just wondering if I could get near the sound of my previous JM. Maybe best if I dont try that.
I do however hate the stiff spring and the fact theres no lock. I like to play without lock but tune down to Drop D a lot and like it locked on those occasions.
Japanese is $50 less, maybe I should give that a try.

[Danley]

Yeah, it's not bad sounding at all, I'm just wondering if I could get near the sound of my previous JM. Maybe best if I dont try that.
I do however hate the stiff spring and the fact theres no lock. I like to play without lock but tune down to Drop D a lot and like it locked on those occasions.
Japanese is $50 less, maybe I should give that a try.

To get specific, the Squier and MIJ vibratos I've had issues with all have the same issue; the pivot point is uneven. And it is truly a bitch to file them flat enough to be consistent - but it is possible and I've done it to probably half a dozen faulty trems. Note that at least two of those faulty ones were brand new, ordered from Fender in the little bag; I have a '96 MIJ trem, and while the pivot on that wasn't perfect it also wasn't unusable to the degree the later brand new ones seem to be; I'm talking the guitar going out of tune like two steps, and the vibrato movement being observably rickety. Sounds like you'd already know if that was the case for your Squier, but might give you an idea whether to bother with an MIJ.

The spring was also much better calibrated for any gauge string on the older MIJ. I'd pretty much only upgrade to AVRI, unless you really just need the lock button and want to save $XX.XX dollars and don't mind having to do some tedious filing (about a 50% ratio in my experience, but others seem to have better luck.)

[Mitch T]

Thanks! I must say, after putting more effort in the perfect setup, the sound opened up a bit. Maybe I had it setup a bit too stiff. Same goes for the spring, I managed to adjust it to be a bit more fluent in response.
I've ordered a Fender Japan trem but will have a good look on the parts and attack with a file if necessary. Basically I just need the lock.