Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

For help with setups and other technical issues.
User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1412
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by JVG » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:49 pm

*
Who is interested in guitar strings?

During the past few years (after many moons of habitually buying exactly the same make) I’ve been experimenting with different strings. I don’t just mean different brands, but different types.

Changing string types is one of the easiest/cheapest ways to mod a guitar, and the sound difference can be just as profound as swapping pickups. For anyone stuck in a guitar-shaped rut, i recomment branching out with your string choice :)

There are many aspects I find interesting, such as:
Core shape: round, hex
Wrap style: round wound, flat wound, half round, roller wound, tape wound....
Geometry: ratio of core diameter to wrap thickness
End style: ball, loop, bullet
Twist style: short, long, reinforced/soldered, silk
Metal: pure nickel, monel, nickel plated, stainless steel, gold....
Coating: anti corrosion, coloured
Gauge: standard sets, custom sets
Tension: actual versus “apparent”
Installation techniques: post winding, slot winding, stretching
Manufacturers and Retailers
Internet myths
History
Famous players preferences


Does this kind of stuff excite you? If so, share your knowledge or experiences. I’ll also add things that may be of interest. ;)

User avatar
Flurko
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:05 am
Location: Stroßbùrri
Contact:

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by Flurko » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:57 am

That's a really underappreciated topic, thanks for creating this thread.
I often wonder about flatwound strings and their going in and out of use, as it's often said that Fender offset were designed for them.
Does the timeline goes : acoustic steel string guitars with heavy round wounds > electric guitars with flatwounds > electric guitars with light roundwounds ? (For what's used by popular guitarists, there's always outliers)

User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1412
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by JVG » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:55 am

Definitely an under-appreciated topic!

My understanding is that the acoustic strings of the 30s and 40s (and the very early electric strings) were some kind of semi-flat (or half round?) and monel was the most common alloy for the outer winding.

Flatwounds turned up on guitars pretty early, as they had already been used on various other stringed instruments for a long time.

This is an interesting read about early guitar strings:
https://tinderwetstudios.com/guitar-st ... -pre-wwii/

J.
Last edited by JVG on Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jorri
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3045
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 1:53 am
Location: bath, UK
Contact:

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by jorri » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:17 am

there are a few other variables too, which i am constantly switching:

-hex vs round core

-stainless vs. carbon steel. (and the varied alloys)

-back into acoustic strings: bronze, phosphor bronze, nickel, silk and steel, silver/copper. Did acoustics start out not using bronze perhaps, and like electrics used nickel. I don't have the info. Some early acoustics would have the silk and steel, or silver/copper strings as a transfer from classical acoustics. Like the gypsy jazz guitars have that but minus the nylon/gut to use more metal as a core, but similar outer windings.
Recently tried the silk and steels and was looking for a darker sound, but was a bit weak maybe! I also used to have the silver/copper type on a jazz guitar and maybe a bit too FAT; not for light open chord strumming much! Depends what is best suited for guitars.

-as a cellist too i see many more technologies for those strings. I wonder why no tungsten strings, spiralcore, silver, titanium, aluminium and all that for guitars, but possibly the same reasons bronze/brass sucks on bowed instruments, except its an expense. the bronze cello strings are a super-budget option for students.

-on the semi-flat strings...some a ground down from round, whilst others have a more ellipsoid shape built in maybe. I've yet to try any of these to be fair- is it a roundwound sound that feels like flats or a tone halfway between for best of both worlds?

User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1412
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by JVG » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:20 am

Some other reasonably recent threads with lengthy discussions about strings:

String gauge discussion
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vi ... 7&t=114805

Flatwound string options
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vi ... 7&t=114012

Jazzmaster high E breakage discussion
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vi ... 7&t=114936

Bass VI and vintage string discussion
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vi ... 1&t=115559

User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1412
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by JVG » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:33 am

jorri wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:17 am
-on the semi-flat strings...some a ground down from round, whilst others have a more ellipsoid shape built in maybe. I've yet to try any of these to be fair- is it a roundwound sound that feels like flats or a tone halfway between for best of both worlds?
Not 100% sure about the original semi-flats, but i’ve tried some of the modern variants.

Daddario, GHS and Labella (and probably others) make ground-wounds, which seem to vary in their sound depending on how far down they are ground. I tried GHS ones, and felt they sounded not too different to round wounds, but had a pretty rough feel which i couldn’t get used to. Daddario “half rounds” (groundwounds) sound closer to flatwounds, and are less rough. I quite like them.

I’ve tried GHS and Labella roller-wounds, which are essentially roundwound strings that are squeezed and thereby the outer wrap is somewhat flattened. These seem to sound fairly similar to round wounds, except that they tend to have a higher core:wrap size ratio, which influences their interaction with the pickups and therefore their output.

J.

User avatar
chillybilly
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:32 pm

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by chillybilly » Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:36 am

I'm interested inasmuch as it's the 'core function' (no pun intended) of the instrument.

Technical specs and differences obviously contribute to the look, feel and sound but there are literal and figurative fine degrees of difference so it's complex stuff without necessarily being difficult to understand (compared to, say, electrical engineering for the layman).

It's difficult to omit one's personal experiences from these threads so I won't try...

Once upon a time a musical rival of sorts told me he used GHS Boomers - although at that time there were precious few varieties available. Dean Markley was the only alternative at my store. I used Boomers for quite a long time but couldn't even tell you what gauge they were. Young, dumb and full of *** as it were. I began using Markleys, probably because they did have color-coded packaging for the gauges (yellow for me thanks) and because you got a neat little sticker - the kind affixed to a million guitar cases, amps, rolling cases, walls, etc.

I confess to being intrigued by the Slinky designation on Ernie Ball strings. Slinky is good, right? Slinky is sexy, funky, agile. Again, I was naive enough not to know or remember that an unwound G and/or lighter gauge strings like 10s or 11s were considered new and revolutionary at one time although I did read about George Harrison reading about Eddie Cochran using a banjo string for an unwound G.

Eventually I got a bit more educated and settled on the Ernie Ball 10s, mostly for Fender guitars. Then I bought a couple of Gibsons - an ES-339 and a VOS SG. That 24.75 in scale was very different-feeling to the point where 10s on the SG felt loosey-goosey so I put 11s on for a time. But soon reverted back to 10s.

I've got self-inflicted wounds on the musical front: I joined and stayed with a band that did mostly outdoor gigs. In the South. In the summer. Cue buckets of sweat and nearly instantaneous corrosion of new strings in the humidity. My rhythm style could be reasonably compared to the gorilla smashing a Samsonite suitcase in his cage in the commercial so E, B, G and even D strings began snapping mercilessly. I finally studied up on the issue and examined/addressed the points of contact at the nut and especially the bridge where I filed any burrs out of saddles etc. It provided some help but not much. I tried Ball Rock & Roll despite not really understanding the difference. I tried Ball Reinforced. Hey, reinforced is stronger, right?

Then it was...Cobalt! Louder, bolder, etc. etc. I think they were. But unfortunately, Ernie Ball strings in any variety just seemed to corrode quickly even in the off-season indoors.

I then moved to D'Addario - whatever their plain version are called. Much better string life.

And then I got a Jaguar (and later a Jazzmaster) hence my presence here. I discovered quickly that surf music demands at least 11s. 10s were incredibly thin and wimpy even when played through a warm, rich 1961 Showman and outboard Fender reverb tank. 12s are even surfier and more closely match the original recorded tones but they were a bit too much of a departure especially as I had 10s on non-offset/non-surf guitars. So 11s it was on the offsets.

Somewhere in the above timeline I tried Elixirs in the days when Polyweb was the only coating. I found them kind of muffled and like many others the flaking of the coating put me off. I later tried the newer Nanoweb. Better but not premium-pricing better. Ironically, I tend to use the Nanowebs on acoustics and a thinline piezo-only acoustic-looking guitar - they sound great and last quite a while.

Also somewhere in the above timeline I tried the cryogenic strings. Ooooh! Were they Markleys? The store sales rep knew the marketing lingo: freezing the strings somehow (re)aligned the molecules in the metal of the strings making them...what? Stronger? Louder? Harder? The rep knowingly rolled his eyes at all the hype. I tried them anyway. Didn't notice any difference.

I guess you can say I'm a sucker for upsell in some situations so I tried the D'Addario NYXL. It took years - decades! - to learn things the hard way but these are excellent strings. Good life, good tone, consistency, resistant to breakage.

And what's this? Balanced tension? Who doesn't want balance in their life? Supposedly bending the A string requires the same effort as bending the B string despite the differences in thickness? Sorcery! Or maybe science! Maybe both? What the hell - I bought some. If I'm honest I can tell about 10-20% difference from the standard NYXL on bends and general feel so maybe there is something to it but I certainly wouldn't rule out any placebo effect.

My string objective now is simple: memorize the ball-end color codes because I always tear the plastic envelope open the wrong way and destroy the little guide printed on it. :wtf:

User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1412
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by JVG » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:21 pm

Cool story man. You seem to have experimented with strings quite a bit!

Regarding ‘balanced tension’ sets, personally i reckon it’s just marketing garbage. I’ve tried them, and they’re ok, but the differences from standard sets are not huge, and there’s no appreciable difference in sound. Tension is obviously important, but picking a set of strings purely because of this is a bit weird to me. I prefer to trust the ears, although having said that, ears can be tricked by marketing hype as well!

J.

User avatar
SadFuzz
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:12 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by SadFuzz » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:59 am

I've been using different brands over the years.
The first set i had on a guitar were d'addario 9-46 roundwound, so i used those before trying ernie balls which i've never got along with, the texture of the strings feel rubbery and unpleasant to me. When i got my jazzmaster i started using 11s which is where i still am today. Various d'addario sets worked well but still broke quite a lot going in and out of different tunings at home. The most reliable set was the last i used which were Rotosound Reds which stayed forever. Took them off a few weeks ago so i can upgrade some hardware. Got some GHS Boomers to test once i restring so we'll see how they go, but Rotosound are the winner for me.
icerinkband.bandcamp.com

User avatar
stooge
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:53 am

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by stooge » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:10 am

I’ve always been fairly equal opportunity when it comes to strings...I’ve played .11s since the early 90s across the board - Fenders and Gibsons. I’ve used GHS Boomers, D’Addarios, and Ernie Balls interchangeably with occasional forays into SIT, Dean Markley, and some budget strings.

I finally got my CIJ Jazzmaster sorted out, and of course for the first time in years I start breaking the high e string at the ball end. It had been strung with a D’Addario set. I put on a random single high e, same result.

I bought a set of the Ernie Ball RPS .11s...they seem to be rock solid so far. I may wind up running regular 11s on my Strat and hardtail guitars and use the RPS 11s on the Jazzmaster.

User avatar
SadFuzz
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 468
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:12 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by SadFuzz » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:16 am

Restrung today with the Boomers and gotta say i'm not stoked. They're 11s but have noticeably less tension somehow, don't if thats the new tuners or just how GHS strings are but i'm missing my roto reds now.
icerinkband.bandcamp.com

User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1412
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by JVG » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:38 pm

Experimenting with Monel

Monel-wrapped strings have quietly crept back into production in recent years (or maybe they never completely went away, i’m not clear on the exact history, but my understanding is that monel was the main metal used in the 40s and 50s before nickel became dominant).

I’ve recently tried Pyramid (round core) and Curt Mangan (hex core) roundwound monel strings, and have enjoyed the results. They are quite different sounding from nickel strings - significantly less attack, but more ‘sweetness’, and a really interesting mid-range harmonic output.

I found them excellent for mellow clean sounds and fat vintage distortion sounds. I wanted to avoid the cliched phrase ‘vintage tone’ but that’s exactly what they give.

On the flip-side, they’re not so good for high-gain attacking sounds or super-twangy cleans. I also suspect they might not work so well on a guitar that is already fairly dark - potentially sounding a bit dull.

I put the Pyramid monels on a Strat that was a bit too bright, and it has given it a great new character. I’m very happy with that experiment. I also tried them on a Jazzmaster, and enjoyed them but eventually decided i wanted a bit more twang than they were providing on that guitar.

Worth trying, I reckon, but be patient while your ears adjust to the new tone. I’d be interested to hear other experiences with monel.

User avatar
Bradley-Jazz
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 796
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:00 pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by Bradley-Jazz » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:50 pm

JVG wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:38 pm
Experimenting with Monel

Monel-wrapped strings have quietly crept back into production in recent years (or maybe they never completely went away, i’m not clear on the exact history, but my understanding is that monel was the main metal used in the 40s and 50s before nickel became dominant).

I’ve recently tried Pyramid (round core) and Curt Mangan (hex core) roundwound monel strings, and have enjoyed the results. They are quite different sounding from nickel strings - significantly less attack, but more ‘sweetness’, and a really interesting mid-range harmonic output.

I found them excellent for mellow clean sounds and fat vintage distortion sounds. I wanted to avoid the cliched phrase ‘vintage tone’ but that’s exactly what they give.

On the flip-side, they’re not so good for high-gain attacking sounds or super-twangy cleans. I also suspect they might not work so well on a guitar that is already fairly dark - potentially sounding a bit dull.

I put the Pyramid monels on a Strat that was a bit too bright, and it has given it a great new character. I’m very happy with that experiment. I also tried them on a Jazzmaster, and enjoyed them but eventually decided i wanted a bit more twang than they were providing on that guitar.

Worth trying, I reckon, but be patient while your ears adjust to the new tone. I’d be interested to hear other experiences with monel.

Just this afternoon I put a set of Martin Retro Monel strings on my Godin Kingpin ES125 style archtop. It’s a laminate body, and the monel, as you say, really adds sweetness to the slightly brash middly acoustic archtop character. Very happy so with them far on this guitar. I will try the Pyramid round core monels at some point, and also some flat wounds, but I’ll leave these on for a while I think.
All the cheeses....

User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1412
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by JVG » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:24 pm

Oh cool! Not having tried them on an acoustic or archtop. i’m really interested to hear about this!

One extra comment from my experience, is that the monel strings lost their ‘zing’ fairly quickly - within a week or two. At this point, many people might consider them too dull, but for my taste i enjoyed the mellow soulful nature. Not quite as mellow as flatwounds, but not far off.

They aren’t the kind of strings i’d put on every guitar, but for certain applications they are awesome.

User avatar
adamrobertt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2411
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:28 am
Contact:

Re: Guitar String Info/Discussion Thread

Post by adamrobertt » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:17 pm

Lately I'm really digging these new "Bender" strings from LaBella. I use .11-.50 gauge. https://www.labella.com/strings/category/benders/

Post Reply