-=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

For help with setups and other technical issues.
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-=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by mynameisjonas » Thu May 10, 2007 3:51 am

A lot of people ask questions about which pickups to use for their MIJ/CIJ, parts project, vintage restoration etc. so here's a little guide:

Jazzmaster pickups


Fender AVRI
Official reissue of a '62-ish jazzmaster pickup. Good quality, faithful recreation of the vintage sound, although some feel they are a bit on the bright side. Cloth covered hookup wire.


Fender Japan
Decent quality pickups. However, these have a taller narrower central bobbin so the wind is shaped more like a Stratocaster pickup than 'true' Jazzmaster pickups, and this gives them a more Strat-like character with lower output and a thinner, brighter sound.


Semour Duncan SJM-1 Vintage for Jazzmaster
Good quality, faithful recreation of the vintage sound. Not quite as bright as the AVRIs. Supposedly based on the sound of a '58 pickup. Uses Alnico V rod magnets. Cloth covered hookup wire.


Semour Duncan SJM-2 Hot for Jazzmaster
Overwound SJM-1, resulting in a lot more output and a bit more emphasis on the lows. Uses Alnico V rod magnets. PVC covered hookup wire.


Semour Duncan SJM-3 Quarter Pounder for Jazzmaster
Overwound pickup using long, 1/4" thick Alnico V rod magnets, and a narrower and taller coil than a standard jazzmaster pickup. High output and a lot more emphasis on the mids. PVC covered hookup wire.


Semour Duncan Antiquity I for Jazzmaster
High quality detailed replica of an early black bottom jazzmaster pickup. These pickups have been slightly demagnitized to accurately simulate the sound of an aged original. Fairly dark tone. Alnico II magnets. Cloth covered hookup wire.


Semour Duncan Antiquity II for Jazzmaster
High quality detailed replica of a mid 60s grey bottom jazzmaster pickup. These pickups have been slightly demagnitized to accurately simulate the sound of an aged original. Brighter tone than Antiquity I. Alnico V magnets.Cloth covered hookup wire.


Curtis Novak Jazzmaster pickups
High quality custom made vintage replicas. Although based on an original '63 pickup, since they are custom, you can have them wound to suit your specific requirements. He aslo offers P-90, PAF, Charlie Christian and standard humbucker pickups that will fit inside a jazzmaster pickup cover, with no modification required.


Jason Lollar Jazzmaster pickups
High quality custom made vintage replicas. Can also be wound to suit your requirements.





Jaguar pickups

Fender AVRI
Official reissue of a '62-ish jaguar pickup. Good quality, faithful recreation of the vintage sound. Cloth covered hookup wire.


Fender Japan
Decent recreation of the vintage sound.  Are known to produce a lot of unwanted feedback when distorted.


Semour Duncan SJAG-1 Vintage for Jaguar
Good quality, faithful recreation of the vintage sound. Uses Alnico V rod magnets. Cloth covered hookup wire.


Semour Duncan SJAG-2 Hot for Jaguar
Overwound SJAG-1, resulting in a lot more output and a bit more emphasis on the lows. Uses Alnico V rod magnets. PVC covered hookup wire.


Semour Duncan SJAG-3 Quarter Pounder for Jaguar
Overwound pickup using long, 1/4" thick Alnico V rod magnets. High output and a lot more emphasis on the mids. PVC covered hookup wire.


Semour Duncan Antiquity I for Jaguar
High quality detailed replica of an early black bottom jaguar pickup. These pickups have been slightly demagnitized to accurately simulate the sound of an aged original. Alnico II magnets. Cloth covered hookup wire.


Semour Duncan Antiquity II for Jaguar
High quality detailed replica of a mid 60s grey bottom jaguar pickup. These pickups have been slightly demagnitized to accurately simulate the sound of an aged original. Alnico V magnets. Cloth covered hookup wire.


Curtis Novak Jaguar pickups
High quality custom made vintage replicas. Although based on an original '64 pickup, since they are custom, you can have them wound to suit your specific requirements. Options include Alnico II / III / V magnets, and enamel / formvar wire.



Note: Seymour Duncan pickups are in some cases wound differently than stock pickups, so for instance a SD neck pup and Fender bridge pup might not provide hum cancelling in the middle position, and may have phase issues. Apparently this isn't always the case, but it's something to look out for.





Electronics

Jazzmaster Wiring Schematics
From www.fender.com (vintage correct, includes grounding of the shielding plates)
From www.seymourduncan.com (closer to japanese wiring model, does not include grounding of shielding plates)

Jaguar Wiring Schematics
From www.fender.com (vintage correct, includes grounding of the shielding plates)
From www.seymourduncan.com (closer to japanese wiring model, does not include grounding of shielding plates)


Upgrading MIJ/CIJ guitars
Although the electronics of the japanese offsets work fine, some feel they want to have more reliable and/or vintage correct parts, and popular upgrades include:

-CTS / Fender USA pots
-Switchcraft / Fender USA jacks and switches
-Cloth wire
-Orange drop caps

Improving the shielding is also a popular upgrade, since some aren't shielded at all. Popular options include:

-AVRI brass shielding plates and tubs
-Sticky-back foil (copper / aluminum / brass)
Last edited by mynameisjonas on Mon May 21, 2007 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by mynameisjonas » Sun May 20, 2007 5:32 am

if anyone has anything to add to this, please post it and we'll add it to the list.

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by Pumpkin » Sun May 20, 2007 5:38 pm

Note: Seymour Duncan pickups are usually wound differently than Fender pickups, so for instance a SD neck pup and Fender bridge pup might not provide hum cancelling in the middle position, and may have phase issues.

Jonas,theres no problem with a sd and fender in my jag,i have a av neck and qp bridge and it cancels hum perfectly.
Even if it were the reverse like a av bridge and sd neck it would still cancel because  they are wound correct for rwrp.

Also another thing is the CIJ switches are better imo,they don't allow any noise to leak when switching where as the switchcraft do!

:)

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by fourmations » Mon May 21, 2007 12:52 am

hi all

does changing the wiring and pots in a cij JM
actually affect the sound?

is it worth doing? i have no issues with my wiring at the moment.

wheres the best place to get the bits? preferably european

rgds

4

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by mynameisjonas » Mon May 21, 2007 1:51 am

well, if you have no issues, i wouldn't say it's necessary to change anything. there might be a slight improvement of the sound, but it's noting major AFAIK. some probably wouldn't even be able to tell the differnece. i think it has more to to with reliability and vintage correctness.

you can get most of the stuff here (it's not located in europe, but they ship worldwide): http://www.guitar-parts.com

we're working on gathering links to where to buy some of these parts, so if anyone has any good links to european sources (and others as well), please post them here.

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by mynameisjonas » Mon May 21, 2007 2:01 am

Pumpkin wrote:
Note: Seymour Duncan pickups are usually wound differently than Fender pickups, so for instance a SD neck pup and Fender bridge pup might not provide hum cancelling in the middle position, and may have phase issues.

Jonas,theres no problem with a sd and fender in my jag,i have a av neck and qp bridge and it cancels hum perfectly.
Even if it were the reverse like a av bridge and sd neck it would still cancel because  they are wound correct for rwrp.

Also another thing is the CIJ switches are better imo,they don't allow any noise to leak when switching where as the switchcraft do!

:)
ok, i'll change the prasing so it doesn't belittle the japanese switches :)

regarding the pups, i have had problems with mixing fender and SD pickups, so i guess it varies. i'll rephrase that as well.

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by spacecadet » Mon May 21, 2007 5:30 am

I just want to clarify - the SD "Vintage" pups are designed to sound like a new vintage pup would have, whereas the SD "Antiquity" pups are designed to sound what an old (ie. today) vintage pup would?  Is that right?  I've always been confused about the difference.

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by mynameisjonas » Mon May 21, 2007 5:47 am

spacecadet wrote: I just want to clarify - the SD "Vintage" pups are designed to sound like a new vintage pup would have, whereas the SD "Antiquity" pups are designed to sound what an old (ie. today) vintage pup would?  Is that right?  I've always been confused about the difference.
i never thought about it that way, but yes i think that's more or less the idea.

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by NoFi » Mon May 21, 2007 7:56 am

I think the difference is the antiquity series have alnico magnets.
Antiquity > alnico II
Antiquity II > Alnico V
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/antiquity.shtml

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by mynameisjonas » Mon May 21, 2007 8:17 am

but the vintage series has alnico magnets as well...

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by NoFi » Mon May 21, 2007 9:05 am

Well yeah they have Alnico V magnets ... second try : they are not scattered winded by hand  lol.
Basically the antiquitys are a more precise (and more expensive) attempt at replicating how vintage pickups were made and how they sound.
Last edited by NoFi on Mon May 21, 2007 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by spacecadet » Mon May 21, 2007 9:23 am

I dunno, reading the page that describes the antiquity series definitely sounds like there's a lot of effort put into "aging" them, not just creating a period correct pickup but actually aging it physically so that it's like a period-correct pickup that's gone through 50 years of abuse.  The "vintage" pickups don't mention any such aging process and if you look at the photos, they just look like brand new pickups whereas the antiquity pickups do look cosmetically old.

So I don't think it's just that one is hand-wound and the other isn't or that one is more precise than the other - it does look like antiquity is meant to sound old, not just vintage spec.

I'm still just as confused as ever... I'm leaning towards foregoing all this vintage/antiquity stuff and just going for Hots.

btw, the FAQ says the Hots have boosted mids, whereas according to SD's tone page it actually has boosted bass and lowered mids and highs vs. the vintage.  That sounds probably like what I want, at least for rhythm.  Maybe a vintage for lead.
Last edited by spacecadet on Mon May 21, 2007 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by NoFi » Mon May 21, 2007 10:04 am

I dunno, reading the page that describes the antiquity series definitely sounds like there's a lot of effort put into "aging" them, not just creating a period correct pickup but actually aging it physically so that it's like a period-correct pickup that's gone through 50 years of abuse.  The "vintage" pickups don't mention any such aging process and if you look at the photos, they just look like brand new pickups whereas the antiquity pickups do look cosmetically old.

So I don't think it's just that one is hand-wound and the other isn't or that one is more precise than the other - it does look like antiquity is meant to sound old, not just vintage spec.
Yeah, i sort of agree on your vision of the Antiquities although we could probably argue for hours about what exactly is an old sounding pickup, and how exactly the sound of pickups changes or not with time.  But the point i was trying to make is that you cant say the vintage series is designed to sound like a new vintage pup would have... they are just building a pickup that has ruffly the same specs than the vintage, but they are building it like pickups are built nowadays. It's just not quite comparable to a new vintage pickup. The antiquities would be closer in my opinion, if not for the demagnetized thing.
To me it's just a marketing matter. The antiquities are for the people wanting Pus built to vintage specs and looks (Seymour sort of building a product that can somewhat answer the demand for vintage replacements and compete with custom winders). The vintage are for people wanting an ok quality replacement pickup  for the cheapest possible price and with several predefined options. I dont think they thought for a second about replicating how a new pickup would have sounded  back in the day.
Not so long ago, i tried a vintage neck PU for jazzmaster in an ibanez guitar, and the PU was really unbalanced and lacking bass. I had to tilt it to have an even sound, it was just ridiculous ! Then i tried a VintageVibeGuitars jazzmaster pickup in that same guitar and it was fine. I've never tried a real vintage jazzmaster PU (and certainly not a new one), but i'd be surprised if they were sounding like that seymour duncan thing. To SD's credit, the tone chart on their website stated that the pickup has not that much of a response in the bass compared to the other versions.
Anyways, nevermind, i have no scientific approach on the matter, it's just how i picture it.
Last edited by NoFi on Mon May 21, 2007 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by spacecadet » Mon May 21, 2007 11:14 am

NoFi wrote: Anyway, i tried a vintage neck PU for jazzmaster in an ibanez guitar, and the PU was really unbalanced and lacking bass. I had to tilt it to have an even sound, it was just ridiculous ! Then i tried a VintageVibeGuitars jazzmaster pickup in that same guitar and it was fine. I've never tried a real vintage jazzmaster PU (and certainly not a new one), but i'd be surprised if they were sounding like that seymour duncan thing.
Well, Fender's AVRI pickups do lean on the highs more than a real vintage pickup (there are A/B sound samples on the Higher Evolution of Offset site), even though they're built to the same specs by the same company.  I realize there are differences in production method, but I think there's gotta be more to it than that; the aging process must have at least some effect on the sound.

Ah, whatever.  All I know is I still have no idea what pickups to get.  Doesn't seem like vintage is really what I want, though.

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Re: -=Jazzmaster and Jaguar Pickups and Electronics FAQ=-

Post by mynameisjonas » Mon May 21, 2007 12:33 pm

spacecadet wrote:
btw, the FAQ says the Hots have boosted mids, whereas according to SD's tone page it actually has boosted bass and lowered mids and highs vs. the vintage.
ooops... i'll change it right away

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