New MIJ Mustang - trem questions

[caliban]

Lighter string gauge would probably work, in order to get the cigar tube to tilt back.

[andy_tchp]

OK now I have it set up pretty much how I want it but the tailpiece\cigar tube is too angled towards the neck. The whammy bar points down towards the pickguard.

The springs are on the end notches of the posts, but I'm at a loss with how to fix the angle.

Ah yes, I forgot this part in my setup summary:

- Carefully bend the bar to where it's comfortable so it doesn't sit too close to the pickguard or point up into the air at 45 degrees from the guitar body.

[Danley]

OK now I have it set up pretty much how I want it but the tailpiece\cigar tube is too angled towards the neck. The whammy bar points down towards the pickguard.

The springs are on the end notches of the posts, but I'm at a loss with how to fix the angle.

Post pics?

If it's the cigar posts leaning, I'd think that lowering the cigar would fix that. Use a small size (forgot which) allen key from the two holes in the cigar.

I strongly suggest having string tension off when you turn the posts but... You don't have to.

[MechaBulletBill]

- Carefully bend the bar to where it's comfortable so it doesn't sit too close to the pickguard or point up into the air at 45 degrees from the guitar body.

You mean put the bar in a vice and put a bend in it that way? I had thought about that.

Post pics?

If it's the cigar posts leaning, I'd think that lowering the cigar would fix that. Use a small size (forgot which) allen key from the two holes in the cigar.

I strongly suggest having string tension off when you turn the posts but... You don't have to.

I might get some pics up tonight. The only problem with lowering the cigar is that, if I lower it any more, the strings will be touching the intonation screws.

It seems to me as though the springs simply aren't exerting enough pull for the trem to have anything close to the stability I want.

[Danley]

How much room is there to lower the bridge? Do you have a neck shim?

[MechaBulletBill]

No shim, the bridge is already pretty low. I think any lower and I'd be fretting out around the 12th.

Everything about the current setup is perfect besides the tremolo.

[andy_tchp]

- Carefully bend the bar to where it's comfortable so it doesn't sit too close to the pickguard or point up into the air at 45 degrees from the guitar body.

You mean put the bar in a vice and put a bend in it that way? I had thought about that.

Yep. I didn't even bother with the vice, I just used my largest pair of pliers to hold the short end (depends how strong you're feeling )

[Danley]

I think I missed what gauge string you're using... I'd step it down a guage and see if that helped. It's strange that you'd still have the trem leaning toward the bridge even if you have the springs on the farthest post for maximum tension.

My Mustang is set up with 11s , everything just clears and action is low with a medium-size shim at the neck. In honesty I want to move to tens next time for ease of setup, but also sort of wonder if the tailpiece will be too high for things to adjust correctly.

[MechaBulletBill]

I'm using 11-54 but I like these strings. I don't want to go lighter, especially on a shorter scale.

Anyway, some progress!

I flipped the bridge around (so that the intonation screws face towards the pickups) and that allowed me a load more clearance to lower the tailpiece. It's sitting at a good angle and feels good and stiff now, but it still doesn't quite return to pitch when I go all wobbly with the whammy.

The other thing is, with the bridge this way around, the saddles seem to try and move around more when I whammy. I might de-tape the bridge posts and see if that helps things a bit.

[caliban]

That's really thick for a shortscale guitar, what's your tuning?

[MechaBulletBill]

That's really thick for a shortscale guitar, what's your tuning?

Standard I was under the impression that it was normal to go heavier on a shorter scale (lots of jag players with 12s etc.) and I've been using these strings on teles/jazzmasters for a few years now.

I'll get the nut worked on this week hopefully, if my guy is free.

[caliban]

Yeah I wasn't thinking logically about the scale thing. I was actually thinking about how I find 11-54 thick for the mustang's trem system. I would indeed expect the cigar to start tilting forward. For standard tuning on a mustang, I wouldn't go over 10-50 or something. Otherwise it would also just feel too stiff...

[MechaBulletBill]

Stiff is what I'm aiming for, I only need a half step +/-

I asked Mike&Mike on tumblr and they suggested I get stiffer MIA springs (which I suspected) but I have no idea where to get them over here, besides importing some vintage parts.

[andy_tchp]

There's absolutely no reason to not use .011s on a Mustang if that's what you want to use, mine had .011-.050 sets for as long as I owned it and it setup perfectly.

They're not even 'really thick' for a 25.5" scale guitar.

I would suggest adding a small neck shim so you can raise the bridge higher - this will give you more clearance between the strings and the bridge base (or intonation screws if you turn the bridge back around the 'right' way) where they feed down towards the tailpiece, meaning you can crank the cigar tube down lower without them fouling on the back of the bridge/intonation screws.

From memory cranking the cigar tube down increases the tension on the springs. Unless something is actually faulty/broken you do not need to find new springs (and new springs will actually achieve precisely nothing if you cannot crank the cigar tube down any further) - the springs in the Fender Japan tremolo assemblies are as stiff.as.fuck.

Much like JM/Jaguar setups, there is a 'sweet spot' to the geometry where everything can setup nicely while keeping the strings free from fouling on the back of the bridge or the intonation screws. I had about 1-2mm of clearance between the strings and the intonation screws on mine, cigar tube cranked down as low as it'd go.


TL;DR: Going by your description: You need the bridge higher and the cigar tube lower.

[MechaBulletBill]

I've got the tailpiece fairly stable (shim, bridge the 'wrong way', tailpiece as low as possible), but now the rocking bridge won't return to the center? I feel like just giving it to a tech and hoping they know what to do and don't charge too much