Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

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thegumbootman
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Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by thegumbootman » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:51 am

So I'm attempting to do the wiring of my new Jag project myself and I've got a few questions.

The wiring will be based on the American Pro Jag. The top control plate has 2 switches, like the Mar Jag, so I can do something with the extra switch or I can just leave it out of the circuit.

Questions:
  • I've got some brass shielding plates on the way, how do I wire these up?
  • In the diagram below it shows a ground lug. If I'm using the brass shielding, can I just wire everything to a point on the shielding instead of to a lug?
  • Do I run a ground wire to the bridge at all?
  • With the spare switch, if I wanted to make it a killswitch, how would I do it?
Other suggestions for what I can do with the spare switch are welcome!

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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by Embenny » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:03 am

For shielding plates to work, they need to be connected to ground. Solder a wire to them, and run that wire to ground (typically the casing of the volume pot). Yes, you can directly solder to the shielding itself provided you have a strong enough soldering iron (a lug is easy because it's a small area that heats quickly...large pieces of brass shielding disperse heat throughout the plate, so you need a stronger soldering iron, and you need to be careful that the plate isn't touching you or anything flammable as you do this).

You can ground the strings by either grounding the bridge (usually by grounding the bridge thimbles, since the bridge itself floats and is not directly accessible for wiring since it sits in the thimbles), or by grounding the tailpiece (trem/vibrato). Both of these are metal contact points that are electrically continuous with the strings. Grounding either point should ground the entire trem/bridge/string system.

This is one way to wire a kill switch. There are many others.

Image

You do not have to wire it between the volume pot and output jack, for example. Just consider the "from volume pot" to be "hot signal in" and the "to hot output jack" as the "hot signal out". You could place this, for example, downstream of your pickup selector switch , where the hot wire from the selector switch goes in at the middle left lug of the kill switch, and the bottom left lug of the kill switch then goes on to the volume pot.
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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by thegumbootman » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:56 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:03 am
For shielding plates to work, they need to be connected to ground. Solder a wire to them, and run that wire to ground (typically the casing of the volume pot). Yes, you can directly solder to the shielding itself provided you have a strong enough soldering iron (a lug is easy because it's a small area that heats quickly...large pieces of brass shielding disperse heat throughout the plate, so you need a stronger soldering iron, and you need to be careful that the plate isn't touching you or anything flammable as you do this).

You can ground the strings by either grounding the bridge (usually by grounding the bridge thimbles, since the bridge itself floats and is not directly accessible for wiring since it sits in the thimbles), or by grounding the tailpiece (trem/vibrato). Both of these are metal contact points that are electrically continuous with the strings. Grounding either point should ground the entire trem/bridge/string system.
Thanks for the info!

Also do the shielding plates just stay in or do I need to tape them down or something?

EDIT:
This is one way to wire a kill switch. There are many others.

Image

You do not have to wire it between the volume pot and output jack, for example. Just consider the "from volume pot" to be "hot signal in" and the "to hot output jack" as the "hot signal out". You could place this, for example, downstream of your pickup selector switch , where the hot wire from the selector switch goes in at the middle left lug of the kill switch, and the bottom left lug of the kill switch then goes on to the volume pot.
Is this what you mean? (removed white wire from switch to volume)

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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by Futuron » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:25 am

Kill switch would be my choice if anything. Or you could use it to turn on/off your guitar's LED strip, haha.



BTW that diagram says "OUPTUT JACK" :fp:

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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by Gordon » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:19 am

Why is there a wire connecting the ground betweenthe V and the T pots? The control plate is metal, doesn't it create a ground loop? :jacked:
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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by timtam » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:34 am

Gordon wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:19 am
Why is there a wire connecting the ground betweenthe V and the T pots? The control plate is metal, doesn't it create a ground loop? :jacked:
The likelihood of a ground loop in a guitar is next to zero. Just having a physical loop does not mean there is a current flow.

Of more curious interest is Fender engineers' inconsistent recognition of the fact that the Jag's metal plate grounds the pots, via their rims (the plate itself is grounded via the grounded rim of the output jack). So there is no need for the links between the pots' backs in order to ground them - they are all already grounded. About half of Fender's jag circuits have these links, the other half don't. Having them is not a problem; they're just redundant.
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by Gordon » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:44 am

timtam wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:34 am
Having them is not a problem; they're just redundant.
Ah, thanks. :) It's just I've been scolded before (years ago!) about a guitar wiring I wanted to make, and I've been told it'd be a hum machine. Which would then explode. And turn me into this guy everytime I want to play anything.
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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by Embenny » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:25 am

thegumbootman wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:56 pm
Is this what you mean? (removed white wire from switch to volume)

Image
Yes. That should work. You can also ground the casing of the new switch. Like timtam said, the plate itself should be enough since the casing of the other switch is already grounded in that diagram you linked, and the two switches will be physically connected by a steel plate. You can check for electrical continuity between the ground and your new switch, or you can ground the casing (just solder a short little wire from the casing of the new switch to where the black wires on the other DPDT switch connect its casing to ground).
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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by thegumbootman » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:02 am

Another thing I could do is add a master bright switch, like on the Johnny Marr Jag. To do this, would it just be the same wiring as the above kill switch, but with a capacitor added?

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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by Paleboy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:27 am

How did this end up? I'm considering doing pretty much the exact same thing. Except on the upper control plate I think I'll do toggles instead of switches so I can do cool staccato things with feedback like Porl Thompson.
What was the wiring schematic you ended up going with?

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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by thegumbootman » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:15 am

Paleboy wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:27 am
How did this end up? I'm considering doing pretty much the exact same thing. Except on the upper control plate I think I'll do toggles instead of switches so I can do cool staccato things with feedback like Porl Thompson.
What was the wiring schematic you ended up going with?
Sorry for the super-late reply - I haven't been on this forum in a while.

I ended up using the one from the image in my second post in this thread.

Have you already done this though?

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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by Paleboy » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:28 pm

Thanks. Yeah, I'm hardly on here as well. For no other reason really than it's mostly all over my head. I'm trying to suck it up by osmosis but all the cool kid abbreviations make it a little difficult, LOL.

I printed up your schematic and am going to use it as the basis for what I want to do, although mines not actually a jag and, as such, neither are the pickups. As far as this goes, it's more about the aesthetic vibe of the jaguar and the myriad tonal options that I'm hoping to get out of this, my first, guitar mod. The venus isn't the same scale as the Jag, nor does it have the tremolo (strings are extended quite a ways beyond the bridge though so that could be cool re sympathetic resonance, etc) so I've given up on the idea of it sounded much like one.

I plan on getting Creamery 'Twin Sound' Sonic 60's, which sound on paper (I haven't really found any sound clips) pretty interesting and will require push/pull pots. Sort of a coil tap, I guess, for single coils. Between those, the series/parallel pickup switching, the on-off phase switch and the kill switch, I should be able to accomplish allot. Now all I have to do is learn how to play properly :derp:

Gonna be a slow roll though on this project since work and a thousand other things on the "honey do" list must come first.

Thanks for the reply.

Kurt

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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by CRWolf » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:40 pm

Bumping this one to see if you got those Creamery Twin Sounds yet. Interested in hearing about them.

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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by Paleboy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:21 pm

Sorry. I had to park this project (Christmas tapped me out) but have just recently resurrected it. It looks like Jaime over at Creamery is still backed up from the holidays too. He hasn't been able to find time to reply to some of my questions I'd like to have answered before I pull the trigger. Being that these pups don't quite fit the single coil or HB definition, I'm not altogether clear on whether the capacitors and resistors for the treble bleed and the tone capacitor are ideal. And now that I'm reading back on your original grounding question, I realize I'm going to have to suss out what might be different between the jag schematic and what it is I'm doing. I won't have a sheiding plate, for example, nor will my pickups be mounted to the body. Remember, with the venus, I'm basically taking a 2 pickup strat-type assembly but adding the control plates (plus a kill toggle) and functions of an Am Pro jag. Neither a strat nor a jag, but hijacking aspects of both, it's going to be interesting how this thing sounds. Of course, no matter what, I'm going to like it. After all this trouble, failure is not an option, even if I have to lie to myself. :w00t:

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Re: Jag Wiring Questions (American Pro style wiring + a spare switch to do something with)

Post by Embenny » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:03 pm

The twin sound sonic 60's are very much just single coils. All they are is a bar magnet with a regular coil wound around it, leads to a coil tap taken out, then a second, smaller coil made of thinner wire continued concentrically with its own leads. Every coil tapped pickup is wound like this, this model just uses a different gauge of wire for the two parts.

Anyway, when connected in series, the two coils just constitute one overwound single coil. When the pickup is tapped, you're just using the innermost coil which is his standard Sonic 60.

The way they are wound (high inductance) with a brass cover (lots of eddy current losses), they will have a lower amplitude resonant peak (flatter response) at a lower frequency ("darker") than a standard Fender single coil. I'd personally use higher value pots for them, or to put it simply, "treat them like humbuckers" in terms of which value tone cap and pot resistance you use.

I don't like the taper of 500k pots in general, and these aren't gonna have much of a resonant peak, especially with both coils in series, so I'd go 1meg personally. That'll give you a brighter tapped tone and more usable untapped tone, but that's my taste in pickups speaking. You might like them darker...but that's what tone knobs are for. Better to have the option of brighter, and better to get a little resonant peak going on a pickup with a brass cover if you ask me.
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