Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

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Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by mjet » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:22 pm

I recently bought a USACG JM from an FDPer (and now an offsetter). The guitar plays fantastic but the barren headstock was just driving me mad - something belongs there! I contacted a guy who did some repro decals for me a few years back and he sent me a '65-ish JM logo. I had the guitar over at a friend's place with a paint corner, so when it came, I had him apply the decal and shoot a thin layer of lacquer over it to keep it in place.

Mind you I'm going for a mild sense of period authenticity, not a dead-on replica (I have no problem at all explaining to someone that it's a replica, and find that USACG does some great work). I got it back and something just looks "off" - I'm trying to figure out what it is. I know that about some of the micro stuff (Syncronized vs Synchornized, italicized letters, etc) but looking at it with a "first glance" it still looks off. What strikes you guys first as being  wrong?

1. Decal too large for the headstock?
2. Font selection?

I always have an option to finish the headstock black and put a clipped "Fender" decal there, but I wanted to give it a shot with the unpainted headstock first. What do you guys think?

Image

If you want to see a much larger version, click here: 
http://www.hadton.com/offsets/headstock_JM_large.jpg
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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by Soiouz » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:30 pm

IMO, I think it is just slightly too big... The "Contour Body" should be in the middle of the round part of the headstock... One other thing that strikes me is that the "FENDER" looks silver instead of gold.. Or maybe it's just the photo angle.. Also, the fonts look ok, but seem to be too bold.


But that said, I don't think it looks that bad at all...

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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by Maggieo » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:32 pm

"Synchronized floating tremolo" looks awful large to my eye.  Or is that a post-CBS thing?
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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by Aug » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:48 pm

that decal was designed for a larger headstock, me thinks.

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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by Orang Goreng » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:48 pm

Yes, that line looks too big and, especially, too bold.

Also, are those patent numbers in gold? They're not on mine (unless the gold has so discoloured that it looks black, like in the Fender logo).


Here's mine for a direct comparison.

Image
Last edited by Orang Goreng on Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by fullerplast » Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:56 pm

There are number of things not quite right. Another vote for "too bold" on the black lettering, and too large. Also, the JAZZMASTER portion  is not curved enough. But I really don't think it's too bad.

Here are the very best decals I know of:

Image

They're silkscreened, and textured (can be "felt" as well as seen). I think they were made from scans of an original, so the fonts and proportions are correct. They're made in Europe, the UK I think.... in relatively small batches. I know of one place in Germany that has them.
Last edited by fullerplast on Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by mjet » Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:07 pm

Yeah, the size definitely throws it off a bit. It looked fine when I had it in my hand but I didn't have a chance to hold it up to the headstock before it was applied.

Is the headstock shaped correctly for a '65? I want to make sure I'm shooting at the right target here...  ;)
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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by Orang Goreng » Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:08 pm

mjet260 wrote: Is the headstock shaped correctly for a '65? I want to make sure I'm shooting at the right target here...  ;)
Yeah, I think so. Mine was photographed under an angle, so the "ball end" looks a bit oversized in the picture.
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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by mynameisjonas » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:01 am

i think i have a pre-cbs version of that decal. same issues with that one. i bought it on ebay from some guy in germany (i think that´s where it was made) who sold both pre-cbs and transition decals.

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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by mjet » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:48 am

Mine (the one that is on my headstock that's a bit too large) was purchased from an eBayer in the US who also made one custom for my Coronado II a couple of years back - I contacted him directly this time around as I don't know if he still does things on eBay. The quality is quite good so I don't want to badmouth him at all but it just seems that the decal that I asked for would be better suited for the larger JM headstocks.
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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by Orang Goreng » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:21 am

Doug, isn't there a des.# (and consequently, a third line) missing from those repro decals? I just looked at Jim Shine's site, and his picture of the earliest type of transition decal has a third line with a number. The later version also has a third line.
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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by fullerplast » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:43 am

AFAIK, the '64 - '65 should have one line. Here are all of them in one shot, supposedly originals:

Image


I think this pic is from Jim as well, hosted by guitarhq.com.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was bootlegged off the web and used for that repro I posted above, it's that exact.
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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by Orang Goreng » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:53 am

fullerplast wrote: AFAIK, the '64 - '65 should have one line. Here are all of them in one shot, supposedly originals:
Odd. My guitar has a june '64 neck date and that second version decal (what Jim calls the first version). Maybe there are three versions?
Last edited by Orang Goreng on Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by Orang Goreng » Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:07 am

Going over Jim's site again it does seem like there's two (or more?) versions of the early one. Your repros have the indents he talks about, while my '64 has the line as wide as the text above it. If that one with only 5 pat nrs is legit, it even means there are three different versions of the early one; that means four different transition decals.
The Jazzmaster decal was redesigned in the summer 1964. The Fender portion was enlarged matching the look of the Jaguar decal. It also increased the number of Patent numbers to a total of 6 (Pat 2,573,254 2,960,900 2,817,261 2,972,923 3,143,028 DES 186,826)  . There is also an alternate variety of decal made at some point mid way through the year. These decals have a white primer layer under the gold, which is visible around the edges. The gold on these logos stays very bright versus the straight gold flake used before and after this short run. An obvious other variance is the first line of patent numbers. The solid gold style has the entire line fit below "With Synchronized Floating Tremolo". The primer style has the patent number line indented on both ends. Looking at the style of manufacture of the bright gold logos with the chunkier than usual clear boarder, and usage found across the majority of the Fender line (I see the similar variation logos on Strat, Mustang, Musicmaster, Duo-Sonic, and Jaguars guitars) I am inclined to believe that CBS experimented with using a different decal supplier either in thoughts of changing the vendor, or to supplement Meyercord. .
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Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here

Post by fullerplast » Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:34 am

It looks like the style of the one labled 64-65 is simply the earlier spag logo but with the Fender in transition style, even to include the misspelled SYNCRONIZED. It would seem that this would be the very first Trans logo, as it also has the gold flake. I believe it is a real one, but wonder why Jim omitted it in that text? After all, those are his pictures on guitarhq and linked from VGI.

???
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