JAG-STANG Prototype - Reverse Engineering

[AcrylicSuperman]

I sill owe you guys measurements off my MIM Jag-Stang. Maybe this weekend?

Sounds good! I'll be kind of slammed all this week, but definitely hit Amon up!

[Amon 7.L]

I sill owe you guys measurements off my MIM Jag-Stang. Maybe this weekend?

Sounds good! I'll be kind of slammed all this week, but definitely hit Amon up!

Yes Brad, sound perfect! Send it my way pictures and all!
Thanks!

[tqi]

-

[AcrylicSuperman]

As I said in my last post, there are a few different ways you can go about the Jagstang neck and still be accurate. All will be explained in good time.

Well, as you know - I bought a second copy of a Squier Jaguar I like and stole the neck off it. How's my "period correctness"?

I like to think of this as being accurate in spirit to the creation of the Jag-Stang, rather than to any previous Jag-Stang neck.

Without the prototype in hand, we can't get to 100% accurate, but we can get damn close. We have measurements from Larry's Mustang and from Kurt's. Can't wait to share it with all of you, really. It'll be a treat.

While we have focused on the blue prototype, we've taken in red and the production models as well. They tend to all be different. And the Kurt's favorite neck advertising from Fender was 100% BS, but they all are linked together, one way or another, and it's hard to understand one without understanding the others too.

But I'm definitely aiming for accuracy. The closer, the better. I want to preserve it historically the best that Amon and I can.

[AcrylicSuperman]

Sorry for the long wait. Life has thrown me a life altering curve ball and it has taken a lot of my time and as well as my energy. All is as well as it can be. I meant to get this out sooner, but you know how life can be sometimes.

For all of you who are reading this, I wish to make this disclaimer very clear: THIS IS NOT THE PROTOTYPE NECK BUT MERELY THE CLOSEST REPRESENTATION THAT WE CAN GET.

Now that we are clear on this matter, this doesn't mean that I have given up on getting measurements from the actual proyotype itself, but until that can be accomplished, if ever, we decided that we can get somewhere close and we accomolished that goal.

Larry Brooks stated that when he met Kurt in Hollywood, that Kurt handed him the 1969 Competition Mustang and told Larry that as of February 1993, that was his favorite neck. Measurements of the neck were not taken by Larry at that time because the meeting was meant to be a consultation. Larry asked if they could bring the neck to Fender to have the profile and specs cloned, but Kurt would not allow it due to the In Utero sessions taking place mere days later. Larry had his own '69 Competition Mustang with a neck that he loosely described as a twin to Kurt's, a neck that was relatively similar in feel, and he asked if Kurt would then be ok with a similar feeling neck and Kurt gave his blessing. Larry then made a template of his Mustang for the custom shop, as they did not have a Mustang or a Jaguar template. However, Larry sold his Mustang years ago. We have no way of ever tracking it down.

When Kurt recieved what Amon and I call the PPB, short for Pre Prototype Body, Kurt made a few small changes. He wanted the jaguar horn a little longer, and he defined that back end curve. But Kurt bolted a neck onto the PPB, and that neck was none other than his Competition neck. This ended up being the deciding factor of the headstock shape for Kurt. He originally asked for a small strat style headstock and he was going to receive that until he changed his mind and asked for the larger CBS style headstock instead. And this is why the rumors of Kurt wanting contours is false. He could have added them at any time and if he had forgot them with Blue, all he needed was to ask for them on Red, but Red never received them either.

So what we walked away with is the knowledge that Kurt wanted a neck similar to his Competition model and that his Competition model neck was technically the first Jagstang neck. Kurt used it because it was what he imagined the guitar to be.

We have discussed this before, but Amon and I have sleuthed this guitar behind the scenes for years now. If we posted every discussion, this thread would be a hundred miles long. Something the two of us have been sitting on for some time now is some potential specs of Larry's neck. Now, as a full disclosure, we have no way of proving that this template at Fender's Custom Shop is Larry's but it is believed to be an old, original master template. The Custom Shop has changed many things since the 90s, including variants of Mustang shapes and neck profiles. Without Larry's Mustang or the Prototype itself, we have no way of varifying those potential specs. We archived them for future study but we never showcased them because of that reason. Due to Peter Buck and all of the REM guys being very private, I have not been able to access the actual prototype. Without the prototype and without Larry's Mustang, there was only one neck left that could bring us close to what the Jagstang was truly like, and that neck was Kurt's 1969 Competition Mustang.

When it came to Kurt's Competition, seeing it sell at auction was nearly devastating. Once it left the comfort of the MoPop Museum in Seattle, where I had laid eyes on it so many years ago, there would be no guarantee that we would be able to find out who the buyer of the instrument was. But, we got fortunate. Jim Irsay, owner of the Indianapolis Colts football team, bought the guitar. I immediately reached out and waited and waited and waited for what seemed to be an eternity. Then, I got a message from Larry Hall. After some discussions on what it was I was looking for and what I hoped to achieve, I was granted permission to have measurements taken and a profile provided, as long as Jacob Sheff were to handle the instrument and take the measurements. I was absolutely fine with that. Jake is a former Smithsonian employee, and I ensure you, this was treated like the white glove affair that it is, as a multi million dollar investment.



I know, I know, this looks a bit crude, but it was actually quite bennificial to us. The first thing you will notice is that the first half of the neck has a bit of an assymetrical profile. You can actually distinguish this from pictures of the back of the neck by the way the light hits it as well. Amon and I spent a long time behind the scenes wondering what was going on with that, but now we know. The 12th fret is fairly normal. The cause of the assymetry is spending a little too much time on the dead head sander.



Despite this feature, it is a feature that we know wasn't replicated on the Jagstang. The Jagstang neck profile was optimized at the Custom Shop, and since we know that Kurt's neck was not used in this process, it is a feature we can eliminate.

So what was the Jagstang neck? Truely, it was the neck of a 1969 Competition Mustang, it just wasn't Kurt's Mustang. However, Kurt's Mustang neck was what he imagined the Jagstang neck feeling like in 1993. While the template specs can not be confirmed as Larry's or the Jagstangs, what I can say is that the two really are quite similar. now that you've seen the profile, the measurements taken from Kurt's Competition Mustang were as follows: 1.610" nut width, first fret .85" and twelveth fret .90".



This is something Nirvana fans have wanted for a long time and I am fortunate to be able to present them to you. I know I have said this in previous posts, but if you can during the football season in the US, watch a Colts game sometime. Let's give Jim, Larry and Jake a big thank you from all of us.

We thank you from the depths of our hearts for all the help you have given us over the years, all the feedback and for being crusaders of truth in putting some of these old myths and legends to rest. I will still very much dedicate my time to trying to get all of us the real Jagstang prototype's neck specs. We hope that you have enjoyed this journey with us as much as we have. But until we get the original, this is the final chapter in our long search. For me, it feels a little bittersweet, finally walking away from this project, having accomplished together all that we can. But, at the same time, I'm overjoyed that we got some very long awaited answers and solved some mysteries along the way, as well as to dispell 30 year old myths and legends, being able to set the record straight and preserve the guitars history. Thank you for being a part of the journey.

-AcrylicSuperman & Amon 7.L

[njpozner]

What an amazing journey and fabulous detective work. Thank you for your determination in tracking all this down and offering your findings here.

[AcrylicSuperman]

What an amazing journey and fabulous detective work. Thank you for your determination in tracking all this down and offering your findings here.

Thank you! I really appreciate it.

[Amon 7.L]

What an amazing journey and fabulous detective work. Thank you for your determination in tracking all this down and offering your findings here.

Thanks so much, Sir. I'm glad you've enjoyed it.

[BTL]

Here are the measurements off my MIM Jag-Stang:

Nut width: 1.58"
1st fret depth: 0.80"
1st fret width: 1.60"
12th fret depth: 0.90"
12th fret width: 2.00"
1st & 12th fret profile, using cobbled together tools:

[AcrylicSuperman]

Here are the measurements off my MIM Jag-Stang:

Nut width: 1.58"
1st fret depth: 0.80"
1st fret width: 1.60"
12th fret depth: 0.90"
12th fret width: 2.00"
1st & 12th fret profile, using cobbled together tools:

Thanks, man! Much appreciated.

[Amon 7.L]

Here are the measurements off my MIM Jag-Stang:

Nut width: 1.58"
1st fret depth: 0.80"
1st fret width: 1.60"
12th fret depth: 0.90"
12th fret width: 2.00"
1st & 12th fret profile, using cobbled together tools:

Thank you.

[BTL]

Thanks, man! Much appreciated.

Thank you.

You're very welcome! I'm sorry it took so long.

[BTL]

[...] now that you've seen the profile, the measurements taken from Kurt's Competition Mustang were as follows: 1.610" nut width, first fret .85" and twelveth fret .90".

Here are the measurements off my MIM Jag-Stang:

Nut width: 1.58"
1st fret depth: 0.80"
1st fret width: 1.60"
12th fret depth: 0.90"
12th fret width: 2.00"

So, it looks like everything with the MIM Jag-Stang is close to what you've found, but perhaps enough different to say it's not an accurate replica, yes?

The nut is narrower and the depth at the first fret is shallower...closer to what people might expect, I'd imagine, and within normal spec variations for builds of that era.

Still, pretty darned close.

[AcrylicSuperman]

[...] now that you've seen the profile, the measurements taken from Kurt's Competition Mustang were as follows: 1.610" nut width, first fret .85" and twelveth fret .90".

Here are the measurements off my MIM Jag-Stang:

Nut width: 1.58"
1st fret depth: 0.80"
1st fret width: 1.60"
12th fret depth: 0.90"
12th fret width: 2.00"

So, it looks like everything with the MIM Jag-Stang is close to what you've found, but perhaps enough different to say it's not an accurate replica, yes?

The nut is narrower and the depth at the first fret is shallower...closer to what people might expect, I'd imagine, and within normal spec variations for builds of that era.

Still, pretty darned close.

It may have been based on vintage example of some sort. It's hard to say. But it does blow the whole "Kurt's favorite neck" marketing out of the water.

[Emil]

Measurements from my 1995 MIJ Jagstang

Nut width: 1.60"
1st fret depth: 0.87"
12th fret depth: 0.99"