CP JM middle HB project

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BarnyardCoral
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CP JM middle HB project

Post by BarnyardCoral » Mon May 06, 2019 11:44 am

Hey folks, I lurk more than post but finally have to ask you, the Offset B&B, about a mod idea I have for my JM.

I have a CP JM with the Rothstein PTB mod, but I did not do the series/parallel mod with the slide switch. Thus, I have a dead DPDT switch, and with all that unused real estate between the pups, I though it would be fun to install a vintage style HB there.

Regardless of which pup I decide to put in there, I'm just a bit unsure of how I'd like to wire it. I currently have each pup wired to its own pot but have found that to be more of a hassle than I initially thought since adjusting either of those pots when the selector is in the middle just brings in buzzing. Anyhoo, I was thinking I would wire the b/n pups to one vol, and the HB to the other.

On top of all that, I still have the dpdt switch available. I was thinking I'd find a 4 conductor HB that splits well and use the dpdt as a coil split switch. This is where I get hazy with my understanding of electricity because I know I'll have to factor in polarity and wind of the single middle pup with the b/n pups. I ordered a magnetic pole detector, but even so, either the b or n will be magnetically similar to the middle. In any case, I'm open to advice and suggestions for this setup, so fire away. Thanks!
And I will be the one to hold Larry Csonka down, kiss him so hard, I'll take Larry Csonka's breath away...

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Unicorn Warrior
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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Mon May 06, 2019 2:51 pm

Idk anything about pups, but please send pics when you do this. I think it's a great idea

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BarnyardCoral
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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by BarnyardCoral » Mon May 06, 2019 3:29 pm

Will do!
And I will be the one to hold Larry Csonka down, kiss him so hard, I'll take Larry Csonka's breath away...

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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by 601210 » Mon May 06, 2019 10:04 pm

Interesting question, but I've seen at least a couple of 3-pickup Jazzmasters round here so surely someone has a good answer for it.

My guess is if you'll have to "sacrifice" one position -- if you want your neck and bridge to be RWRP with respect to each other, then your split middle pickup can only be RWRP with respect to either the neck or bridge, and you'll have to chose if you want your Neck + Middle to hum cancel or your Bridge + Middle.

On a Strat this isn't an issue because the Neck + Bridge combination is never used. On a Les Paul Black Beauty, the middle pickup is always on and can be blended into all positions, but they're all humbuckers so I don't think it matters as much.

I could be completely all wrong about all that, but that's how it makes sense to me at least.

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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by BarnyardCoral » Tue May 07, 2019 4:08 am

Right, and I'm fully expecting that, though that has more to do with the direction of the wind IIRC. That's another interesting point though. Wind AND polarity have to be taken into account, though I don't know how to figure out the wind on one coil of a humbucker (drop a pinch of grass and see which direction it blows? Nyuk nyuk nyuk).

In fact, the whole basis of me throwing in an HB in the middle is based on my research in various forums that an HB is pretty much solder-and-play with any old SC. I could be wrong there too. Electricity is not my strong suit, though I'm getting better.
And I will be the one to hold Larry Csonka down, kiss him so hard, I'll take Larry Csonka's breath away...

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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by timtam » Tue May 07, 2019 4:50 am

If you know any 2 out of phase, polarity, and winding direction, you can determine the 3rd. Relative polarities and winding directions determine if two pickups are in-phase and hum-cancelling, or not ..
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... e-with-you

eg polarity with a $2 compass ...
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... p-polarity
Or get relative polarity by bringing the tops of the pickups near to each other ... opposites attract.

Get phase by resistance on a digital multimeter, eg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcuvBRZPpow
... or current on an analog meter ..
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... t-2?page=2

With those 2 known for two pickups, you can get relative winding directions from the chart in the top link ..
Image

The 2 pickups in a JM or jag usually have opposite polarities and opposite winding directions, which means that the middle position is in-phase and hum-cancelling (the 2 coils of a HB work the same way). As others have pointed out, adding a third pickup and expecting it to work in combination with the other 2 complicates things. ;)

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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by BarnyardCoral » Tue May 07, 2019 5:18 am

That's a pretty handy chart. I'm not worried about the bridge and neck pickups because those are already installed and from the same manufacturer so I know they're in phase and hum canceling. What I just need to be certain about is that I could install a humbucker and It would be in phase with both pickups by virtue of simply being a humbucker. At least that's how I've understood it. From there, I'd need to figure out if it's worth it to add a coil splitting option, which introduces its own potential problems. In which case I would refer to that handy little chart.
And I will be the one to hold Larry Csonka down, kiss him so hard, I'll take Larry Csonka's breath away...

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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by BarnyardCoral » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:53 pm

So quick update to this thread: I ordered a Jazzmaster neck pickup from Revel Custom Pickups (revelcustompickups.com), a small shop out of Minneapolis. My goal is to see how I like that neck pickup, and then take my current Benson Custom and put it in the middle. The neck and middle would be out of phase but the neck and bridge would still be in phase. I'll have pictures in an update once that's done.
And I will be the one to hold Larry Csonka down, kiss him so hard, I'll take Larry Csonka's breath away...

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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by alexpigment » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:36 pm

BarnyardCoral wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:53 pm
So quick update to this thread: I ordered a Jazzmaster neck pickup from Revel Custom Pickups (revelcustompickups.com), a small shop out of Minneapolis. My goal is to see how I like that neck pickup, and then take my current Benson Custom and put it in the middle. The neck and middle would be out of phase but the neck and bridge would still be in phase. I'll have pictures in an update once that's done.
If you are ordering a Jazzmaster pickup and it's from a small builder who handmakes them, it seems like you could ask them to build it so that it's the same winding and polarity as your bridge, then you would have two hum cancelling (and in phase) positions when you move your current neck pickup to the middle position. For context, this is how a strat works. The bridge and neck are the same, but the middle pickup is RWRP.

EDIT: I'm only posting this under the assumption that you just ordered it and they haven't done anything with your order yet.

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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by BarnyardCoral » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:02 am

alexpigment wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:36 pm
If you are ordering a Jazzmaster pickup and it's from a small builder who handmakes them, it seems like you could ask them to build it so that it's the same winding and polarity as your bridge, then you would have two hum cancelling (and in phase) positions when you move your current neck pickup to the middle position. For context, this is how a strat works. The bridge and neck are the same, but the middle pickup is RWRP.

EDIT: I'm only posting this under the assumption that you just ordered it and they haven't done anything with your order yet.
Yes, I was considering that, but I like the bridge/neck position. I'm willing to give up the neck/middle position to gain bridge/neck. I still get 5 pickup selections, just not like a Strat.
And I will be the one to hold Larry Csonka down, kiss him so hard, I'll take Larry Csonka's breath away...

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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by BarnyardCoral » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:41 am

So I'm getting closer to figuring out what I want to do with my triple-single JM but I have a wiring question I was hoping someone could answer. I want to get a custom pickguard made instead of hacking up my stock pickguard, and one of the things I'd like to do is put in a 5 way switch. However, I don't want to do the standard Strat wiring, but rather have it be N/N-B/M/M-B/B. I want this because I want to maintain the classic JM N-B sound, and furthermore, the neck and middle pickups that I have are both north polarity so they'll buzz and I don't want the neck and bridge to be out of phase. Also, the middle and bridge are the Benson Custom set so they'll sound better together anyway (I assume).

Anyone know how I could wire this up on a standard CRL 5-way? Thanks in advance.
And I will be the one to hold Larry Csonka down, kiss him so hard, I'll take Larry Csonka's breath away...

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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by timtam » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:55 pm

BarnyardCoral wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:41 am
...one of the things I'd like to do is put in a 5 way switch. However, I don't want to do the standard Strat wiring, but rather have it be N/N-B/M/M-B/B..
....
Anyone know how I could wire this up on a standard CRL 5-way? Thanks in advance.
The standard strat 5-way switch has the 'combination' positions (2 and 4) 'hard-wired' (in the switch structure) to link adjacent terminals. So if you have pickups connected to terminals 1, 2, 3, the combinations you get are 1-2 and 2-3 ... you have no choice. Changing the combinations without changing out the 5way switch requires additional switch(es), eg ..
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... tocaster-1

If you want something different while keeping just a 5way switch, you need the 5-way 'superswitch' (4p5t) instead - you can then wire it however you want (using only 2 of the 4 poles if that's all you need). Above the pickguard, the switch is the same size and moves the same way as the regular 5way. But it is larger underneath.
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... per_Switch
https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_R ... tchI1.html

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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by BarnyardCoral » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:57 pm

timtam wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:55 pm
The standard strat 5-way switch has the 'combination' positions (2 and 4) 'hard-wired' (in the switch structure) to link adjacent terminals. So if you have pickups connected to terminals 1, 2, 3, the combinations you get are 1-2 and 2-3 ... you have no choice. Changing the combinations without changing out the 5way switch requires additional switch(es), eg ..
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... tocaster-1

If you want something different while keeping just a 5way switch, you need the 5-way 'superswitch' (4p5t) instead - you can then wire it however you want (using only 2 of the 4 poles if that's all you need). Above the pickguard, the switch is the same size and moves the same way as the regular 5way. But it is larger underneath.
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... per_Switch
https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_R ... tchI1.html
Oh, this is awesome! I don't think I ever knew how 5way switches work. The super switch would be slick. I'll have to do some research to figure out how to wire it the way I want. Shouldn't be too hard though. Thanks!
And I will be the one to hold Larry Csonka down, kiss him so hard, I'll take Larry Csonka's breath away...

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Re: CP JM middle HB project

Post by threewordname » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:10 pm

You could wire a standard strat switch for n/nb/b/mb/m.

Not exactly the order you want, but all the combinations are there.

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