Compton Bridges

[thirtydirtybirds]

Anyone use one on a jazzmaster? Looking to upgrade the bridge on my JMJM and these seem like they might be great.

[antisymmetric]

http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... it=compton

[Debaser]

I'm a bar bridge user and swear by them for vibrato use. They help eliminate rattle and also increase sustain (not that I care about sustain). I've owned a Compton, stainless steel with the tone chamber. I also own/owned several Tru-Arcs, which I now use most of the time for a floating bridge, namely rocking, compensated-G Serpentune models in brass, bronze, aluminum and steel.

I don't like either of those bridge makes for hard stud mounted posts. A big factor of decent intonation depends on the factory stud installation. Most probably assume an adjustable saddle bridge will be used. For that reason, I like dBridge. Those bridges are made custom, after you send photos and measurements of your already well set-up TOM. Dave then mills the bridge to those precise measurements, so you'll get the accurate intonation of your particular guitar and string combo. If you don't tweak stuff like string gauges or playing action, it's the best bar bridge solution for a stud-mounted bridge. Well, if you tweak stuff, you're probably not a bar bridge fan in general I have a dBridge in brass, soon to get another for my Starfire V in aluminum. No steel option, but Ebano sounds really good.

I'm not affiliated with any of these folks, but I have used all the bridges mentioned, including the MIJ stock Gretsch bar bridge, and vintage types. In other words, happy consumer...check em out.

https://www.db-guitars.com/

http://www.truarcbridgeworks.com/

[timtam]

I'm a bar bridge user and swear by them for vibrato use. They help eliminate rattle and also increase sustain (not that I care about sustain).

We often make that distinction between sustain performance and 'everything else'. But when you think about it, it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Particularly when you look at string frequency content measurements over time (see for example Zollner ch7 ref below). If a string vibration frequency dies out relatively early when left to ring/sustain, that frequency has actually begun to disappear from the strings from just after the pick attack. So that bridge/guitar's frequency palette will be different at all points in time from that of a guitar with better sustain. So it's not like a long-sustaining and short-sustaining guitar will have similar frequency content over the time course of most typical playing, but just when a note is left to sustain for seconds that one guitar's string vibrations 'drop off a cliff' while the other's keep ringing.

So you don't have to want to sound like Carlos Santana to want a guitar with good sustain. A guitar with good sustain will have more retained string vibration content at all points in time.

Of course one reason people like offsets is that the frequency spectrum is characteristically more limited at all points in time. And that's for similar reasons that their sustain is limited.

So while solid 'bar' bridges will indeed increase sustain, they will also retain more string vibration frequency content from the beginning of each note. Bridges with many parts (eg TOMs, offset bridges) have multiple interfaces/air gaps at which vibration can occur, and thus string vibrations are transferred to the bridge and absorbed/lost at those points.
https://www.gitec-forum-eng.de/2019/08/ ... s-on-line/

I don't think we've seen a rocking solid bridge have we ? Maybe it would be good to see one (assuming you can live with fixed intonation ... the trade-off for no moving parts). Although they would require high friction 'saddle' points for the strings to grip so that they can rock the bridge, and bridge height setting would still require screws (but perhaps with a locking screw mechanism to prevent vibration). But with their typical smooth low friction string contact points, bar bridges are perhaps most suited to replacing non-rocking TOM/AOM bridges on offsets with trems.

[Larry Mal]

I love TimTam now.

[The Dead Ranch Hands]

I don't think we've seen a rocking solid bridge have we ? Maybe it would be good to see one (assuming you can live with fixed intonation ... the trade-off for no moving parts). Although they would require high friction 'saddle' points for the strings to grip so that they can rock the bridge, and bridge height setting would still require screws (but perhaps with a locking screw mechanism to prevent vibration). But with their typical smooth low friction string contact points, bar bridges are perhaps most suited to replacing non-rocking TOM/AOM bridges on offsets with trems.

Bigsby Sorkin bridges rock.

[Debaser]

I'm a bar bridge user and swear by them for vibrato use. They help eliminate rattle and also increase sustain (not that I care about sustain).

We often make that distinction between sustain performance and 'everything else'. But when you think about it, it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Particularly when you look at string frequency content measurements over time (see for example Zollner ch7 ref below). If a string vibration frequency dies out relatively early when left to ring/sustain, that frequency has actually begun to disappear from the strings from just after the pick attack. So that bridge/guitar's frequency palette will be different at all points in time from that of a guitar with better sustain. So it's not like a long-sustaining and short-sustaining guitar will have similar frequency content over the time course of most typical playing, but just when a note is left to sustain for seconds that one guitar's string vibrations 'drop off a cliff' while the other's keep ringing.

So you don't have to want to sound like Carlos Santana to want a guitar with good sustain. A guitar with good sustain will have more retained string vibration content at all points in time.

Of course one reason people like offsets is that the frequency spectrum is characteristically more limited at all points in time. And that's for similar reasons that their sustain is limited.

So while solid 'bar' bridges will indeed increase sustain, they will also retain more string vibration frequency content from the beginning of each note. Bridges with many parts (eg TOMs, offset bridges) have multiple interfaces/air gaps at which vibration can occur, and thus string vibrations are transferred to the bridge and absorbed/lost at those points.
https://www.gitec-forum-eng.de/2019/08/ ... s-on-line/

I don't think we've seen a rocking solid bridge have we ? Maybe it would be good to see one (assuming you can live with fixed intonation ... the trade-off for no moving parts). Although they would require high friction 'saddle' points for the strings to grip so that they can rock the bridge, and bridge height setting would still require screws (but perhaps with a locking screw mechanism to prevent vibration). But with their typical smooth low friction string contact points, bar bridges are perhaps most suited to replacing non-rocking TOM/AOM bridges on offsets with trems.

Heh, yes I know what you mean about the sustain and frequency palette, but I’m trying to side step that issue. Trying to coerce a hollowbody to behave like solid body is denying the creative aspects of seeking out the hollowbody in the first place. Thumpy bass notes, quick decay, sometimes dull attack..all the charm. Folks call that “niche” and anti-versatile, and I’m like “what?” But that’s kind of what a bar bridge will move the hollowbody away from, but not overcome. The next step in that ‘solid’ direction would be bracing type, in particular some heavy trestle bracing to further remove the acoustic aspect of the hollowbody. It’s no surprise to me JMs were designed to be a little extra plinky on purpose

As for a Gretsch Rocking Bar Bridge, that’s the basis for Tim’s bridge, and he makes both an interpretation of the RBB stock or a milled-flat bridge at request. Do they actually rock? Nah course not, but do floating JM/Jag bridges actually return to Top Dead Center? All depends on playing context and expectations. Experience has shown me that friction vs sliding bridge arguments are not so dichotomous. It’s more a combination of the two. The most easy to move part will give first, and in most cases it’s the lazy saddle intonation spring, or the play in bridge post spec that moves before anything else. At some point during vibrato use, one string is sliding while the other is ‘locked’ down to saddle groove with friction, there is no perfect version of one or the other. More of an ‘encouragement’ for one or the other. While the T-A doesn’t pivot as easy as a JM thimble/pointed post will, the chamfer in the post hole of the bridge allows for a certain amount of play. The Bigsby itself has a bit of limitation, one that I’ve only exceeded by using a Mastery 4.1, and those two saddles are definitely moving back and forth during vibe use. The need for locking everything down only leads to locking trems—the Floyd grew out of function, requirements of how one plays and the expectation of returning to perfect pitch.

[timtam]

I don't think we've seen a rocking solid bridge have we ? Maybe it would be good to see one (assuming you can live with fixed intonation ... the trade-off for no moving parts). Although they would require high friction 'saddle' points for the strings to grip so that they can rock the bridge, and bridge height setting would still require screws (but perhaps with a locking screw mechanism to prevent vibration). But with their typical smooth low friction string contact points, bar bridges are perhaps most suited to replacing non-rocking TOM/AOM bridges on offsets with trems.

Bigsby Sorkin bridges rock.

Hmmm ... interesting. Found your thread ...
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=112954

[Debaser]

I don't think we've seen a rocking solid bridge have we ? Maybe it would be good to see one (assuming you can live with fixed intonation ... the trade-off for no moving parts). Although they would require high friction 'saddle' points for the strings to grip so that they can rock the bridge, and bridge height setting would still require screws (but perhaps with a locking screw mechanism to prevent vibration). But with their typical smooth low friction string contact points, bar bridges are perhaps most suited to replacing non-rocking TOM/AOM bridges on offsets with trems.

Bigsby Sorkin bridges rock.

I shaved all my Bigsby bridges down flat, never did return to where they supposed to be

[antisymmetric]

I don't think we've seen a rocking solid bridge have we ? Maybe it would be good to see one (assuming you can live with fixed intonation ... the trade-off for no moving parts). Although they would require high friction 'saddle' points for the strings to grip so that they can rock the bridge, and bridge height setting would still require screws (but perhaps with a locking screw mechanism to prevent vibration). But with their typical smooth low friction string contact points, bar bridges are perhaps most suited to replacing non-rocking TOM/AOM bridges on offsets with trems.

I've whipped up my own for my old Jansen Jazzman using the original thimbles and posts. (Not too pretty, just "proof of concept"). Setscrews in the sides to lock to the posts. My best analogy for the sound difference over the original bridge would be that this one's like a more sensitive microphone- you can just brush your fingers over the strings and it'll pick up everything. Intonation seems ok, I shaped this bridge to match the saddle positions on the original bridge. The old bridge isn't going back on, and when I finally get my JM built, one-piece is the way I'll be going.

[wproffitt]

I’m loving this discussion! I thought I was the only one into this concept. I’m not saying my JMs with Comptons dripped right into TOM/AOM posts are perfect, but I love the way they sound and the way the bridge feels under the edge of my palm. I’d be curious to see what it would be like if I had the option of having the posts rock in the thimbles, but haven’t tried to make that happen yet.

[The Dead Ranch Hands]

I shaved all my Bigsby bridges down flat, never did return to where they supposed to be

That's my experience too!

[The Dead Ranch Hands]

Hmmm ... interesting. Found your thread ...
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=112954

Yeah. I went back to the Mustang bridge for a while, and got frustrated again with the action and have the Sorkin bridge on it again now. It's the best solution for me. I always liked the simplicity and sound of one-piece bridges. I think they fit well with what offsets are kind of supposed to be, which is the solid body answer to a jazz archtop, or a Gretsch, or something along those lines.

I'm thinking of getting some wooden dowels to put inside the thimbles, with a hole drilled in there for the posts I'm using, just so it feels like it's in there more solidly (currently the posts are wrapped in tape).

[PorkyPrimeCut]

^ Probably the simplest & by far the best looking solution. ^

[mgeek]

I've whipped up my own for my old Jansen Jazzman using the original thimbles and posts. (Not too pretty, just "proof of concept"). Setscrews in the sides to lock to the posts. My best analogy for the sound difference over the original bridge would be that this one's like a more sensitive microphone- you can just brush your fingers over the strings and it'll pick up everything. Intonation seems ok, I shaped this bridge to match the saddle positions on the original bridge. The old bridge isn't going back on, and when I finally get my JM built, one-piece is the way I'll be going.

Did an early morning double take as this looks like the one I knocked up in my garage for my Hofner verithin!

Do you think the extra mass compared to a regular Bigsby rocker makes any difference?