Guild Starfire opinions

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Guild Starfire opinions

Post by rbrcbr » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:08 am

I've seen that some of you guys here on OSG are big Starfire fans (I know Despot, Telliot, and Maggieo have all had some beautiful Starfire III's). I recently sold an Epiphone Sheraton AIUSA (wish I still had that one, stupid good deal but needed the money i could make) and Gretsch 5422(wasn't jiving with it as much sound-wise for some reason) to pay off some debt.

I've been gassing super hard over another hollowbody recently (they seem to work better with my fingerstyle stuff than my JMs)and rediscovered the Guild Starfire guitars. I'm a huge fan of DeArmond pickups, and all the videos I've seen of early '60s Starfire III's are pretty convincing of how great those are. I've always loved the look and sound of Starfire V's as well, and the bigsby is a plus for sure.

Vintage examples are still relatively affordable (and always preferable), but the Newark Street series seems pretty promising. The only issue is that the III's have the LB-1 pickups and not the DeArmonds, and the reissue pickups aren't going to be anything like vintage DeArmonds. I know the original Guild Minis sound great, but haven't ever had the chance to play a reissue with the LB-1s in person. Have any of you played the reissues and what do you think of them?

The other thing about the Starfire V's is they seem to be pretty heavy - any input on that?

My main concern with trying to get into a vintage example (aside from cost) is the potential for a neck reset and other issues with the neck/intonation. The reissues seem to be pretty good quality from what I've heard, but figured I'd ask around here and see what you guys thought. The fact that the V is available in Emerald and Black is pretty dang cool too.

This tone though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nogbv-inf2o

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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by TeenageShutdown! » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:25 pm

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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:28 pm

All I can say is, a year ago I was dangerously close to selling my Vox Ultrasonic & I had that very guitar you linked as a replacement (early 60s Starfire III). Gorgeous things with absolutely fantastic sounding Dearmond pickups. From what little I know about Guild they're consistent throughout the years (I own a great late 70s D50 acoustic) but those guitars around the beginning of the 60s are particularly good. Sleeper guitars too, value-wise.

I see your concern with vintage vs re-issue but, if it was me, I'd go vintage every time. It might just take a little longer for "the one" to turn up. I'd also stick to red & make sure I got a model with the curved pickguard, not the stepped one (so, again, early 60s....and yes, I'm a twat when it comes to aesthetics!)

Happy hunting!
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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by Despot » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:04 am

Hey there OP.

So I've had two - an early '60s Starfire II (I thought it was a III but I was corrected on Lets Talk Guild) and a mid '70s Starfire IV. Oh wait! I'd a Newark Street Polara too. All were very different animals, so let me try explain why and hopefully it'll help you out.

First off ... the least favourable one - the '74 (iirc) Starfire IV. I say less than favourable, but to be honest it was just one thing that killed it for me. In every other respect this was a killer guitar - those Guild humbuckers (HB1s I think?) are superb pickups. They're a little hotter than Gibson pickups from the '70s, but maybe closer to those higher output early '60s PAFs. They're a pretty rocking pickup if that's your thing - I was using a JMI version of the AC4 at the time as my home amp. I would have it turned low for home use most of the time - I plugged the Starfire into that thing and it was straight into overdrive at a volume that I'd use to get clean tones on the ES355 I had at the time ('70s t-top pickups). So ... they're nice.

But the neck. The neck on the Starfire (and it appeared to have it's original frets and a non-planed board) was completely flat. If there was a radius to it at all it must have been 16 inches or more ... it played flat as a board. And I couldn't work with that. I'm not sure if all '70s Guilds will be the same (the bridge on the Starfire also appeared to be radius'd for a Gibson radius - and it was the original bridge) ... but if you're someone who plays Fenders with either a vintage or modern radius ... it'll feel odd. Hell ... I'm mostly a Gibson player these days and it felt odd to me back then.

Next ... the one I really wanted to like - the Newark Street Polara. I loved this guitar unplugged - it was decent weight mahogany (i.e. not back breaking) and it really was made well. One of the lowest buzz free actions I've ever been able to set - a joy to play. I think it had a 9.5 radius too - it certainly wasn't dead flat like the '70s Starfire. But the pickups ... they really weren't up to much. I tried everything I could in adjusting them but the neck stayed dark and the bridge lacked any of the character of the vintage HB1s. They've apparently revisited pickup design since those first guitars (I bought mine when they just came out) ... but I haven't really tried a Newark Street since then. It's a shame as the guitars themselves are really well made - no doubts about that. Guild replacement pickups don't really exist either - so it's not an easy thing to replace the pickups. Both the mini-HBs and full size HBs have a different size footprint to a Fender or Gibson humbucker ... and they'd look wrong without that particular Guild cover anyway.

The nicest one - the early '60s Starfire II. This was a killer guitar - DeArmonds, a bigsby and a neck that had an almost vintage Fender radius ... a really sweet guitar. The only trouble was that it was going to need a bit of work to get it right - the neck needed a reset, or a planing at the floating end, as there was a bit of a hump and the action was just a bit too high. The guitar had also been refinished in cherry (a reasonably okay job too) ... but for some reason it killed it for me. I let it go to fund something else - but those DeArmond pickups were some of the nicest single coils I've ever tried.

Wait - there was another ... a '90s (or early '00s ... whenever Fender bought them) Fender built X130 (might have that model number wrong) ... basically the same as a 6120 Gretch single cut. That was a really nice guitar - but there was practically no difference between it and a Gretsch and something about having a Guild badged 'Gretsch' seemed wrong - I'd rather just have a Gretsch. Of all that I tried and briefly owned that '90s Fender made Guild was the nicest to play. They're quite a few of those out there too - various models, not just the big body hollow guitars.

So what would I recommend? I second what Mark said above - if the difference between a reissue and vintage is a couple of hundred bucks (as it can be between a vintage Starfire or S100 and the equivalent Newark Street) then I'd go vintage. In fact - I'd look for headstock repaired guitars or good refins (there was a really sweet refinished S100 in a grey/green finish here a while back that was cheap too). Do not be afraid of headstock repairs or refins - check that it's got the original pickups and be happy that the work was done well. Headstock repairs usually half the value of a guitar - so that puts an 'issues' vintage Guild in the same price range as a Newark Street. I've owned a lot of 'issues' guitars - and I can honestly say that I have never once found a guitar with a headstock repair that was less stable or that went out of tune any more than a non-issues version of the same guitar. In fact ... that '63 Firebird I bought recently could only have been bought because it was a headstock break - and the repair to the break was actually far better than the original (as there isn't a lot of wood around the truss rod access/nut on Firebirds in the first place).

Guilds vintage production quality never really suffered the same way that Fender and Gibson did - so you'll find '70s Guilds for reasonable prices, but they'll have the same superb production quality as 'golden era' Gibsons or Fenders. The materials are different - the bodies are mostly mahogany rather than maple ply or spruce on others - but that's just something that is part of the Guild look (that sort of stripe effect you get with mahogany). But I would advise you to try before you buy - make sure that the neck shape/profile works for you. There's no contest between modern NS and vintage in my view - mostly due to the pickups. The new ones don't sound anything like the old ones to my ear.

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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by MrFingers » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:24 am

You can install T-armonds from TV Jones in a humbucker-size, which will fit the LB1 hole with minor adjustment.

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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by cestlamort » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:33 pm

I'd echo the recommendation to go vintage. I was lucky enough to get a 60s SFIII as my first "real" guitar (in the 90s) and it'll probably be my last guitar when it comes to that. Comfortable, resonant (it's the best sounding electric unplugged that I've heard), light (!), cool all around. They were (and still probably are) some of the last sleeper US vintage electrics. I went through a bunch of hollow/semihollow bodies over the years (mostly out of curiosity and exploring whether they'd unseat the SFIII -- none did).

I briefly had a couple of SFIV models (90s or so) that were surprisingly different (also from each other!), feeling more like the semi-hollowbodies they are (335, etc) and way more "rock" somehow. One had the Fender reissue pickups, the other the stock SD. Both sounded good, but felt "modern" in a sense.

I've played a few of the newer ones in stores and, although they're all nice, I'd hold out for an old one for the price difference. The SFIV/V seem heavier than the older ones, as did the SFIII, but I didn't do a real comparison.

I had a SFXII for a minute (on a quick approval period) and I kick myself for not keeping it. (It was also a little above the going rate).

In short, I'd hunt out and try out a bunch of the SFIII if you can. The earliest ones (dearmonds) have become a bit scarcer but I really love the ones with the mini humbuckers. (Or at least: mine). And there are deals out there. Check in with the Let's talk Guild folks, too. It's a nice forum with nice folks (if a half generation+ older than most on OSG).

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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by rbrcbr » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:26 pm

TeenageShutdown! wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:25 pm
{insert generic affirmation}
:D

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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by rbrcbr » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:44 pm

MrFingers wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:24 am
You can install T-armonds from TV Jones in a humbucker-size, which will fit the LB1 hole with minor adjustment.
Surprisingly enough, I had T-armonds (filter mount) in my Gretsch 5422 recently, but those particular pickups didn't have the sort of chime I hear in these vintage Dearmonds. I liked the sound but just wasn't bonding with the guitar as much as I'd hoped to. Good to know though.

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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by rbrcbr » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:23 pm

PorkyPrimeCut wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:28 pm
All I can say is, a year ago I was dangerously close to selling my Vox Ultrasonic & I had that very guitar you linked as a replacement (early 60s Starfire III). Gorgeous things with absolutely fantastic sounding Dearmond pickups. From what little I know about Guild they're consistent throughout the years (I own a great late 70s D50 acoustic) but those guitars around the beginning of the 60s are particularly good. Sleeper guitars too, value-wise.

I see your concern with vintage vs re-issue but, if it was me, I'd go vintage every time. It might just take a little longer for "the one" to turn up. I'd also stick to red & make sure I got a model with the curved pickguard, not the stepped one (so, again, early 60s....and yes, I'm a twat when it comes to aesthetics!)

Happy hunting!
Despot wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:04 am


The nicest one - the early '60s Starfire II. This was a killer guitar - DeArmonds, a bigsby and a neck that had an almost vintage Fender radius ... a really sweet guitar. The only trouble was that it was going to need a bit of work to get it right - the neck needed a reset, or a planing at the floating end, as there was a bit of a hump and the action was just a bit too high. The guitar had also been refinished in cherry (a reasonably okay job too) ... but for some reason it killed it for me. I let it go to fund something else - but those DeArmond pickups were some of the nicest single coils I've ever tried.

So what would I recommend? I second what Mark said above - if the difference between a reissue and vintage is a couple of hundred bucks (as it can be between a vintage Starfire or S100 and the equivalent Newark Street) then I'd go vintage. In fact - I'd look for headstock repaired guitars or good refins (there was a really sweet refinished S100 in a grey/green finish here a while back that was cheap too). Do not be afraid of headstock repairs or refins - check that it's got the original pickups and be happy that the work was done well. Headstock repairs usually half the value of a guitar - so that puts an 'issues' vintage Guild in the same price range as a Newark Street. I've owned a lot of 'issues' guitars - and I can honestly say that I have never once found a guitar with a headstock repair that was less stable or that went out of tune any more than a non-issues version of the same guitar. In fact ... that '63 Firebird I bought recently could only have been bought because it was a headstock break - and the repair to the break was actually far better than the original (as there isn't a lot of wood around the truss rod access/nut on Firebirds in the first place).

Guilds vintage production quality never really suffered the same way that Fender and Gibson did - so you'll find '70s Guilds for reasonable prices, but they'll have the same superb production quality as 'golden era' Gibsons or Fenders. The materials are different - the bodies are mostly mahogany rather than maple ply or spruce on others - but that's just something that is part of the Guild look (that sort of stripe effect you get with mahogany). But I would advise you to try before you buy - make sure that the neck shape/profile works for you. There's no contest between modern NS and vintage in my view - mostly due to the pickups. The new ones don't sound anything like the old ones to my ear.
Definitely going to try for a vintage Starfire III, got my eyes on a 62 on the GC site. Those DeArmonds are so enticing, and overall it's just a beautiful guitar. I wish it was close by so I could try it out first. Sounds like everyone has been pretty happy with their early 60s Starfires.

cestlamort wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:33 pm
I'd echo the recommendation to go vintage. I was lucky enough to get a 60s SFIII as my first "real" guitar (in the 90s) and it'll probably be my last guitar when it comes to that. Comfortable, resonant (it's the best sounding electric unplugged that I've heard), light (!), cool all around. They were (and still probably are) some of the last sleeper US vintage electrics. I went through a bunch of hollow/semihollow bodies over the years (mostly out of curiosity and exploring whether they'd unseat the SFIII -- none did).

In short, I'd hunt out and try out a bunch of the SFIII if you can. The earliest ones (dearmonds) have become a bit scarcer but I really love the ones with the mini humbuckers. (Or at least: mine). And there are deals out there. Check in with the Let's talk Guild folks, too. It's a nice forum with nice folks (if a half generation+ older than most on OSG).
Thanks for the feedback guys. It's good to hear the quality didn't suffer over the years. Cestlamort - I actually was looking at that refin'd 65, not a bad price at all but I think I'd prefer the Dearmonds over the minis this go around. I'd love to get my hands on a 60s Starfire V in Emerald one day but it seems they're getting harder to find and more expensive than ever.

This video of the Barr Brothers has me GASing for one so bad.

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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by Debaser » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:24 pm

Glad to run into this thread. I’m looking for a Guild Starfire, and I can’t decide between a III or V. Of course I’d like vintage but I’m also fine with the Newark Street stuff. I’m selling another Gretsch for it, and the V is probably what I’ll end up with, dollar for dollar.

I prefer the bigger necks, how do the modern Samicks pan out thickness wise?
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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by Debaser » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:38 pm

rbrcbr wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:44 pm
MrFingers wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:24 am
You can install T-armonds from TV Jones in a humbucker-size, which will fit the LB1 hole with minor adjustment.
Surprisingly enough, I had T-armonds (filter mount) in my Gretsch 5422 recently, but those particular pickups didn't have the sort of chime I hear in these vintage Dearmonds. I liked the sound but just wasn't bonding with the guitar as much as I'd hoped to. Good to know though.
T-Armonds are great pickups, but TVJ winds them mid-heavy. The Dynasonic pickup location along the string path matters, but most folks overlook this. I had a G5420 with T-A/T-series in the Filtertron location. Great, awesome, all that, but mid-honk apparent on the bridge position. I traded those T-As away. Later I got into a ‘53 VS Scripty Duo Jet with stock T-As. These were in the ‘correct’ position for a Duo, bridge pickup right against the fretboard edge (more boom, adjust accordingly), and the bridge pickup closer to the bridge. Results meant a better balance to my ears. The mid heavy bridge position was tamed and while maybe not whatever vintage DeArmond chime might be, there was improved ‘chime’.

Let’s not forget vintage DeArmonds varied over time. Or that Dynasonic magnet poles can be tweaked in various ways. Or that vintage Dyna Duo Jets are a unique bird construction wise :)
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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by cestlamort » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:45 am

rbrcbr wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:23 pm



Definitely going to try for a vintage Starfire III, got my eyes on a 62 on the GC site. Those DeArmonds are so enticing, and overall it's just a beautiful guitar. I wish it was close by so I could try it out first. Sounds like everyone has been pretty happy with their early 60s Starfires.

Cool. The early ones (amber knobs, different pickguard shape) look pretty spectacular -- like they're still more in the 1950s than 60s. They've also gone up a lot more in price than the later ones over the years (I seem to remember all SFIII's going for around the same price more or less in the late 90s/00s, just that the DeArmond ones were harder to come by). There's one on Reverb, too. If you're curious to play one, Guitar Center will give you an approval period (note: it's short for vintage guitars, 72 hrs?) and you can then return to a store rather than shipping. They tend not to refund for the shipping, so that's essentially a small fee ($25 or whatever) to try it out.

Maybe worth noting that the necks on Starfires (or at least mine) has a different density than, say, a Gibson or even 90s Starfire. It feels a little lighter (less solid? less hefty?) somehow.

If you're after the dearmonds, they were also on other models of the era (I've forgotten the various model numbers), so keep your eyes peeled for those, too. The Duane Eddy model is one, but that'll be even pricier.

We have the Dearmond reissue pickups (dearmond 2000? vs 2k for the old ones?) on the living room guitar (Gretsch sparkly G5126) and they sound good. Maybe not a fair comparison, but the SFIII sounds way better.

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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by rbrcbr » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:34 am

Debaser wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:38 pm
rbrcbr wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:44 pm
MrFingers wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:24 am
You can install T-armonds from TV Jones in a humbucker-size, which will fit the LB1 hole with minor adjustment.
Surprisingly enough, I had T-armonds (filter mount) in my Gretsch 5422 recently, but those particular pickups didn't have the sort of chime I hear in these vintage Dearmonds. I liked the sound but just wasn't bonding with the guitar as much as I'd hoped to. Good to know though.
T-Armonds are great pickups, but TVJ winds them mid-heavy. The Dynasonic pickup location along the string path matters, but most folks overlook this. I had a G5420 with T-A/T-series in the Filtertron location. Great, awesome, all that, but mid-honk apparent on the bridge position. I traded those T-As away. Later I got into a ‘53 VS Scripty Duo Jet with stock T-As. These were in the ‘correct’ position for a Duo, bridge pickup right against the fretboard edge (more boom, adjust accordingly), and the bridge pickup closer to the bridge. Results meant a better balance to my ears. The mid heavy bridge position was tamed and while maybe not whatever vintage DeArmond chime might be, there was improved ‘chime’.

Let’s not forget vintage DeArmonds varied over time. Or that Dynasonic magnet poles can be tweaked in various ways. Or that vintage Dyna Duo Jets are a unique bird construction wise :)
Ya know, it may have been how mid heavy they were, regarding the "chime" aspect I suppose. I'm excited to play some vintage DeArmonds in person. I'd love a vintage Duo Jet, got to play one with Filters recently in Amsterdam, but none with DeArmonds.

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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by rbrcbr » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:42 am

cestlamort wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:45 am
rbrcbr wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:23 pm



Definitely going to try for a vintage Starfire III, got my eyes on a 62 on the GC site. Those DeArmonds are so enticing, and overall it's just a beautiful guitar. I wish it was close by so I could try it out first. Sounds like everyone has been pretty happy with their early 60s Starfires.

Cool. The early ones (amber knobs, different pickguard shape) look pretty spectacular -- like they're still more in the 1950s than 60s. They've also gone up a lot more in price than the later ones over the years (I seem to remember all SFIII's going for around the same price more or less in the late 90s/00s, just that the DeArmond ones were harder to come by). There's one on Reverb, too. If you're curious to play one, Guitar Center will give you an approval period (note: it's short for vintage guitars, 72 hrs?) and you can then return to a store rather than shipping. They tend not to refund for the shipping, so that's essentially a small fee ($25 or whatever) to try it out.

Maybe worth noting that the necks on Starfires (or at least mine) has a different density than, say, a Gibson or even 90s Starfire. It feels a little lighter (less solid? less hefty?) somehow.

If you're after the dearmonds, they were also on other models of the era (I've forgotten the various model numbers), so keep your eyes peeled for those, too. The Duane Eddy model is one, but that'll be even pricier.

We have the Dearmond reissue pickups (dearmond 2000? vs 2k for the old ones?) on the living room guitar (Gretsch sparkly G5126) and they sound good. Maybe not a fair comparison, but the SFIII sounds way better.
Yeah, pretty bummed to see how much they've gone up. Saw a black Starfire III from the early 60's sell for $1450 in like 2014 on another forum...god, what I'd give for that deal.

And cool, I'm stoked to check this one out! I managed to get them to transfer it to my local shop, just had to call and talk to the GM at my local GC. Last time I tried doing this, the other shop said they couldn't because "it's a cool vintage piece and it's getting lots of attention here", which i suppose is reasonable. But yeah, should be here sometime this week/early next week. Can't wait to check it out - the neck is definitely one of my biggest points of interest, cause I've heard some of the later 60s Starfires tend to have skinnier necks. If it's worth having I'll have to sell some gear, likely my AV65 Oly JM (begrudgingly, but I haven't been playing it a whole lot lately so it only makes sense).

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Re: Guild Starfire opinions

Post by Maggieo » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:14 am

Objectively, they're great. Mine was bedeviled by electronics problems and was about as reliable as a Civic tuned to within an inch of its life.

Pretty guitars, and I was not expecting the DeArmonds to be so loud.

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1961 Guild Starfire III, June 07, 2015 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr

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