Guild Starfire V NS - Tuning Stability Issues

For guitars of the straight waisted variety (or reverse offset).
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Jestapali
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Guild Starfire V NS - Tuning Stability Issues

Post by Jestapali » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:19 pm

I really like my Newark Street Guild Starfire V with guildsby. There were conflicting reviews about the pickup balance, but I enjoy the tones of the mini humbuckers and don't notice any kind of lack of power in the bridge pickup. What has been an increasing annoyance, is how the strings (mostly D and G) quickly detune with bending , and go out of tune with use of the trem.

Originally the guitar had a floating bridge, but I fixed it with rosin and it does not move at all. I also applied pencil graphite to the nut, in case the strings were getting caugh there. All this has not helped and the tuning issues continue.

Should I bring it to the shop? Sell It?. Initially I would like to keep this guitar, it is very well made, sounds great, and it's a beauty ... but those issues are annoying me and it is not one of the guitars I use with the band.

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Hilarion Lefuneste
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Re: Guild Starfire V NS - Tuning Stability Issues

Post by Hilarion Lefuneste » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:53 pm

If you like the guitar, you should do what you can, within reason, to keep it. Lubricating the nut can be helpful, but I think it's more important that the slots are cut properly; they should be wide enough that the string doesn't catch, and the edges of the slots should be slightly rounded (or at least not very sharp). Anyway, that's not the kind of problem that you should try to fix by yourself if you don't know what you're doing, so I suggest you take it to a tech.

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Jestapali
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Re: Guild Starfire V NS - Tuning Stability Issues

Post by Jestapali » Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:29 pm

I guess I might do that. Thinking about a roller bridge too, although I keep hearing conflicting information about this option.
That the guitar gets detuned when bending tell me that the main issue should not be on the trem, so either nut or bridge.
I've been thinking about getting one for my Jazzmaster CP as well.

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Hilarion Lefuneste
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Re: Guild Starfire V NS - Tuning Stability Issues

Post by Hilarion Lefuneste » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:28 pm

I don't like roller bridges. I think they tend to kill tone even more than tun-o-matic type bridges. But it's a personal preference, so feel free to ignore me.

I have a couple of archtops with floating bridges and they both have solid one-piece aluminium Bigsby OEM bridges. If you use regular gauge strings tuned in standard, there shouldn't be any intonation problems.
Last edited by Hilarion Lefuneste on Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Debaser
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Re: Guild Starfire V NS - Tuning Stability Issues

Post by Debaser » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:37 am

The nut is likely the culprit, and potentially the bridge. I think this is a cross-post on Tee-Dee, no? As mentioned, you'll need to dress the nut properly, using abrasive cord. The nut it self is well made but I had to tweak mine to keep the same from happening. The strings wound on the post correctly?

The bridge shouldn't be floating, it should be 'secured' (using modern Gretsch parlance). This means the bridge posts are threaded directly into the guitar top, so all the bridge pressure is being pushed down from steel post to solid center block. The rosewood base becomes cosmetic. A pinned bridge is where the string pressure is transmitted through the wood base, but lateral movement is prevented by inserting loose fitting pins within aligned holes in both the bridge base and guitar top. Subtle tone chasing differences, but overall effect is the same, keep the bridge from moving.

I removed my bridge from my SF-V, only to find I couldn't get the threads back in precisely as they were drilled. This left a big gap under the rosewood base. No biggie, I made the holes in the top larger so the bridge post pins could fit in with no resistance (basically converted it from secured to pinned). Then I sanded the base to fit the curved top. No rosin is needed, but maybe a previous owner made yours completely floating as a preference.

I also used a ABM 2400 roller bridge on the SF-V, the body of which is milled from solid brass. Tone-wise, it's pretty much the same as a nice bar bridge (increased sustain/resonance), and spec'd to high tolerances. It used to be pretty affordable, but Stateside they are a little too much for what's given. Plus there is a radius mismatch, since the Guild is 9.5". It still worked great and I had no tuning issues. However, at the moment I'm getting an aluminum D-Bridge for the SF-V, a custom bar bridge. I'm a big fan of solid bar bridges, good ones never gave me tuning issues (like Tru-arc and Compton bridges).

I swapped my pickups around, and inverted the blade location. Made for an improvement, next step for me are 1meg pots, because I like bright guitars.
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Jestapali
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Re: Guild Starfire V NS - Tuning Stability Issues

Post by Jestapali » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:15 pm

Thanks Debaser. Yes it is a cross-post. I'll try to get some abrasive cord for the nut then. I'm quite intrigued about the floating bridge though. Mine was certainly floating (I had to apply rosin to it). You (and a poster on the TDPRI) say that this model has a secure bridge but my guitar's top is free of holes, nothing there to insert the bridge posts. I wonder if at some point they varied production on these models. Unfortunately I got mine used and I am not completely sure when it was first acquired.

I'll explore some solid bar bridge alternatives, thanks for that, I'm not sold on the TOM.

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Re: Guild Starfire V NS - Tuning Stability Issues

Post by ludobag1 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:12 pm

on my T400 the way to have no tuning issue was only locking tuners cause it already have roller bridge ,without it was a nightmare you only look the trem and it was out of tune,on my dot that i have put a chinese bigsby i have some trouble ,first was the nut cause i have change the gauge 10 46 to 10 52 after dressing the frets ,after i find the tunomatics Don't works well need to file the saddle who were to sharp and Don't be good enought then i put a roller bridge (a cheap i have ,need better one)
this chigsby was a B7 clone and the second bar is a little irritative to my tastes ,on the dearmond i have a B6 style
i spent much time to mount, dismantle it to understand what s wrong
first the nut
second the bridge
third the roller bar of trem
and 4 the spring
i try a mosrite spring in place of the one delivered with ,better but not enough good ,try the dearmond one and voila ,so much better
this spring is more short 7/8 instead of 1 inch and i find it work better and put the arm at the good high ,with the 1 it was ridiculous high
i know if i want to made it reliable for stage ,i must buy locking tuners and a new bigsby spring and also finish the nut work ,pencil help a lot here
for those who says bigsby Don't stay in tune it is totally wrong but du to the floating it is worse than a jazzmaster trem to set up but when it is set up it stay pretty well like my jazzmaster and i use a lot the trem
and i forget the bridge base on the t 400 is not glued ,not pined ,not screwed ,i have just put some colophane on the patt who contact with the top (colophane is used for fidler to put on the elbow to make the horse hair scratching),if i really use the trem as a Floyd(dive bombing) i miss some tuning ,but if i use it normally no change in tuning,and the rosewood base Don't move at all

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Re: Guild Starfire V NS - Tuning Stability Issues

Post by Rook » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:44 pm

Pardon me for resuscitating a thread that is a couple of weeks old, but I'd like to offer a different perspective and a potential solution for improving tuning stability on the Starfire V NS, which I also own.

In my opinion the main cause of tuning instability may be the headstock design. Tuning instability is an issue with most guitars with Gibson-style 3+3 headstocks, in particularly the G and D strings. One of the reasons why this headstock design causes tuning issues is because the four middle strings have to travel at a sharp angle from the nut up to the tuning pegs. Guitars with 3+3 headstocks are more likely to go out of tune after bends or the use of the vibrato arm. This is much less of an issue with guitars where the strings go to the tuning peg without forming an angle at the nut (e.g., Fenders, PRS, Music Man).

I too have been frustrated with my Starfire V going continually out of tune after bends or after using the vibrato arm. But I recently learned of a simple mod that may significantly improve tuning stability. It's called the string butler, you may want to look it up. It apparently can be installed easily on the headstock (anyone can do it) and leaves no mark on the guitar if removed. I've read that the "version 3" model is compatible with the Starfire.

Based on my research, the string butler may be worth a try. In fact, I've asked my wife to offer me one for Christmas. I'll be happy to report back once I've had a chance to try it out.

Cheers,

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