Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
- mjet
- Expat
- Posts: 4207
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:03 pm
- Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
I recently bought a USACG JM from an FDPer (and now an offsetter). The guitar plays fantastic but the barren headstock was just driving me mad - something belongs there! I contacted a guy who did some repro decals for me a few years back and he sent me a '65-ish JM logo. I had the guitar over at a friend's place with a paint corner, so when it came, I had him apply the decal and shoot a thin layer of lacquer over it to keep it in place.
Mind you I'm going for a mild sense of period authenticity, not a dead-on replica (I have no problem at all explaining to someone that it's a replica, and find that USACG does some great work). I got it back and something just looks "off" - I'm trying to figure out what it is. I know that about some of the micro stuff (Syncronized vs Synchornized, italicized letters, etc) but looking at it with a "first glance" it still looks off. What strikes you guys first as being wrong?
1. Decal too large for the headstock?
2. Font selection?
I always have an option to finish the headstock black and put a clipped "Fender" decal there, but I wanted to give it a shot with the unpainted headstock first. What do you guys think?
If you want to see a much larger version, click here:
http://www.hadton.com/offsets/headstock_JM_large.jpg
Mind you I'm going for a mild sense of period authenticity, not a dead-on replica (I have no problem at all explaining to someone that it's a replica, and find that USACG does some great work). I got it back and something just looks "off" - I'm trying to figure out what it is. I know that about some of the micro stuff (Syncronized vs Synchornized, italicized letters, etc) but looking at it with a "first glance" it still looks off. What strikes you guys first as being wrong?
1. Decal too large for the headstock?
2. Font selection?
I always have an option to finish the headstock black and put a clipped "Fender" decal there, but I wanted to give it a shot with the unpainted headstock first. What do you guys think?
If you want to see a much larger version, click here:
http://www.hadton.com/offsets/headstock_JM_large.jpg
"You eventually learn that true priorities are like arms; if you think you have more than a couple, you're either lying or crazy."
- Soiouz
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 3399
- Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:31 am
- Location: Montreal, Canada
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
IMO, I think it is just slightly too big... The "Contour Body" should be in the middle of the round part of the headstock... One other thing that strikes me is that the "FENDER" looks silver instead of gold.. Or maybe it's just the photo angle.. Also, the fonts look ok, but seem to be too bold.
But that said, I don't think it looks that bad at all...
But that said, I don't think it looks that bad at all...
- Maggieo
- Expat
- Posts: 13446
- Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:36 am
- Location: Nebraska, USA
- Contact:
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
"Synchronized floating tremolo" looks awful large to my eye. Or is that a post-CBS thing?
“Now I am quietly waiting for/ the catastrophe of my personality/ to seem beautiful again.”- Frank O'Hara
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.
- Aug
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 333
- Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:17 pm
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
that decal was designed for a larger headstock, me thinks.
- Orang Goreng
- Mods
- Posts: 15876
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:56 am
- Location: Amsterdam, NL - €
- Contact:
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
Yes, that line looks too big and, especially, too bold.
Also, are those patent numbers in gold? They're not on mine (unless the gold has so discoloured that it looks black, like in the Fender logo).
Here's mine for a direct comparison.
Also, are those patent numbers in gold? They're not on mine (unless the gold has so discoloured that it looks black, like in the Fender logo).
Here's mine for a direct comparison.
Last edited by Orang Goreng on Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man's a freak.
- fullerplast
- Mods
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:53 am
- Location: In My Room
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
There are number of things not quite right. Another vote for "too bold" on the black lettering, and too large. Also, the JAZZMASTER portion is not curved enough. But I really don't think it's too bad.
Here are the very best decals I know of:
They're silkscreened, and textured (can be "felt" as well as seen). I think they were made from scans of an original, so the fonts and proportions are correct. They're made in Europe, the UK I think.... in relatively small batches. I know of one place in Germany that has them.
Here are the very best decals I know of:
They're silkscreened, and textured (can be "felt" as well as seen). I think they were made from scans of an original, so the fonts and proportions are correct. They're made in Europe, the UK I think.... in relatively small batches. I know of one place in Germany that has them.
Last edited by fullerplast on Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Q. Are we not men?
- mjet
- Expat
- Posts: 4207
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:03 pm
- Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
Yeah, the size definitely throws it off a bit. It looked fine when I had it in my hand but I didn't have a chance to hold it up to the headstock before it was applied.
Is the headstock shaped correctly for a '65? I want to make sure I'm shooting at the right target here...
Is the headstock shaped correctly for a '65? I want to make sure I'm shooting at the right target here...
"You eventually learn that true priorities are like arms; if you think you have more than a couple, you're either lying or crazy."
- Orang Goreng
- Mods
- Posts: 15876
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:56 am
- Location: Amsterdam, NL - €
- Contact:
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
Yeah, I think so. Mine was photographed under an angle, so the "ball end" looks a bit oversized in the picture.mjet260 wrote: Is the headstock shaped correctly for a '65? I want to make sure I'm shooting at the right target here...
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man's a freak.
- mynameisjonas
- Admin
- Posts: 12696
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:55 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
i think i have a pre-cbs version of that decal. same issues with that one. i bought it on ebay from some guy in germany (i think that´s where it was made) who sold both pre-cbs and transition decals.
- mjet
- Expat
- Posts: 4207
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:03 pm
- Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
Mine (the one that is on my headstock that's a bit too large) was purchased from an eBayer in the US who also made one custom for my Coronado II a couple of years back - I contacted him directly this time around as I don't know if he still does things on eBay. The quality is quite good so I don't want to badmouth him at all but it just seems that the decal that I asked for would be better suited for the larger JM headstocks.
"You eventually learn that true priorities are like arms; if you think you have more than a couple, you're either lying or crazy."
- Orang Goreng
- Mods
- Posts: 15876
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:56 am
- Location: Amsterdam, NL - €
- Contact:
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
Doug, isn't there a des.# (and consequently, a third line) missing from those repro decals? I just looked at Jim Shine's site, and his picture of the earliest type of transition decal has a third line with a number. The later version also has a third line.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man's a freak.
- fullerplast
- Mods
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:53 am
- Location: In My Room
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
AFAIK, the '64 - '65 should have one line. Here are all of them in one shot, supposedly originals:
I think this pic is from Jim as well, hosted by guitarhq.com.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was bootlegged off the web and used for that repro I posted above, it's that exact.
I think this pic is from Jim as well, hosted by guitarhq.com.
I wouldn't be surprised if it was bootlegged off the web and used for that repro I posted above, it's that exact.
Last edited by fullerplast on Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Q. Are we not men?
- Orang Goreng
- Mods
- Posts: 15876
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:56 am
- Location: Amsterdam, NL - €
- Contact:
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
Odd. My guitar has a june '64 neck date and that second version decal (what Jim calls the first version). Maybe there are three versions?fullerplast wrote: AFAIK, the '64 - '65 should have one line. Here are all of them in one shot, supposedly originals:
Last edited by Orang Goreng on Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man's a freak.
- Orang Goreng
- Mods
- Posts: 15876
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:56 am
- Location: Amsterdam, NL - €
- Contact:
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
Going over Jim's site again it does seem like there's two (or more?) versions of the early one. Your repros have the indents he talks about, while my '64 has the line as wide as the text above it. If that one with only 5 pat nrs is legit, it even means there are three different versions of the early one; that means four different transition decals.
The Jazzmaster decal was redesigned in the summer 1964. The Fender portion was enlarged matching the look of the Jaguar decal. It also increased the number of Patent numbers to a total of 6 (Pat 2,573,254 2,960,900 2,817,261 2,972,923 3,143,028 DES 186,826) . There is also an alternate variety of decal made at some point mid way through the year. These decals have a white primer layer under the gold, which is visible around the edges. The gold on these logos stays very bright versus the straight gold flake used before and after this short run. An obvious other variance is the first line of patent numbers. The solid gold style has the entire line fit below "With Synchronized Floating Tremolo". The primer style has the patent number line indented on both ends. Looking at the style of manufacture of the bright gold logos with the chunkier than usual clear boarder, and usage found across the majority of the Fender line (I see the similar variation logos on Strat, Mustang, Musicmaster, Duo-Sonic, and Jaguars guitars) I am inclined to believe that CBS experimented with using a different decal supplier either in thoughts of changing the vendor, or to supplement Meyercord. .
Last edited by Orang Goreng on Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man's a freak.
- fullerplast
- Mods
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:53 am
- Location: In My Room
Re: Funky JM repro decal - help me spot what's not right here
It looks like the style of the one labled 64-65 is simply the earlier spag logo but with the Fender in transition style, even to include the misspelled SYNCRONIZED. It would seem that this would be the very first Trans logo, as it also has the gold flake. I believe it is a real one, but wonder why Jim omitted it in that text? After all, those are his pictures on guitarhq and linked from VGI.
Q. Are we not men?